[WhiteRavenKS]

Hey Everyone-

The mtn states cup was a joke this year. It was partly our fault and partly the fault of the mtn states cup folks. There was plenty to be learned from this last season though and hopefully next year we can have a great year. Also, if Pancho and Mike do the front range series, colorado could have some seriously good comp action going on. With the mtn states cup, the front range series, a nats event lookign likely and the independent events like salida and gunnison, colorado should have some pretty heavy slinging pros by the end of next year!

I want to get some feedback from riders here on what you would like to see in next year's MSC. We have some ideas so far but want to take any tips into consideration. here is what we have so far:

-Split pro and expert: no more of this combined class crap. it not only frustrates experts but holds back pros. it's stupid to keep this class combination around. next year we will split pro and expert up. expert will probably be about the level of the keystone sport class (sorry about that) but with some tricky moves thrown into each section. if you have to dab a tricky exp move, do it. otherwise it will be just more technical sport class basically with somewhat bigger moves. think the easier exp/pro section from this last year. pro sections will be hard. hard. i want to get people like matty r getting a five or two at each event. pro will be big moves, really technical stuff, shorter run ups- that kind of stuff. the lower pro class guys (probably like me i guees) will be fiving almost everything if we build em right. beg sections will stay basic to accomodate crossover folk from dh/xc events. sport will not be as hard as i was at keystone. technical, but not big.

-No more Pedal/Bash: uci rules aplenty. pro and expert classes will be uci rules next year. this is one thing we need to take riders input on: should sport be uci also. if it isnt, then the gap between sport and exp gets bigger. i would like to see everyone go by uci rules. aside from looking cleaner it causes less damage to any obsticles we may use for course bulding. even if the mountain people dont care about the stuff any more it reflects well on us if we dont smash the piss out of everything. uci rules means the hub axle cant cross the tape, exp and pro get 2:30 for sections, sport/beg gets 3-3:30 for sections. there are other rules but those can be gone over at riders meetings if any come up in a section we build. keep in mind you still can use pedals and bash but it will cost you a dab every time it touches.

-Pro gets prize money: yeah, we havent been on par with any other pros when it comes to this and we never will be. it is crap though that we dont get anything in trials. we will be workign on getting prize money for the top three in pro 20 and 26. expert/sport/beg will get prizes and the little plaque things as before. hopefully we can get some really nice prizes for next year. pros work their butts off to get to that level and should be rewarded just like any other descipline of cycling. this will bring us closer to the same level as other aspects of the MSC.

-Behavoir changes: the trials community is hanging on by a thread in the mainstream racing scene. the last thing we need is to alienate ourselves out of it completely. this means ALL riders need to be on their best behavoir at these events. no huffy chucks, no screaming obscenity, no helmet tosses. all this stuff reflects incredibly poorly on the sport. sure we all get mad at times but a trials event is neither the time nor the place to vent that. any one who cant keep their frustration in check is not welcome at events next year and outbursts will result in DQ action and will be asked to pack up and leave. trials is really fun to watch for spectators but with little kids and church ladies watching we cant let "fuck this piece of shit bike!" be heard.

-Post comp demo riding: some events that are very spectator friendly are great venues to showcase talent. sometimes true rider skill is not shown in the sections we build. keystone and steamboat come to mind here. post comp demos are somethig we all do anyways but next year i would like to make it official that people can come after the comp and before the awards to watch what we can do when not in the confines of a section. riders are encouraged to stick around and possitively represent the sport. show people your skills, answer questions, let people take pictures. lets keep up the good work with this.

-look professional: score cards. anyone who went to durango (yeah, all couple of y'all ) know what they did for score cards. not only does it look like crap but it makes it hard on promoters to get accurate scores when us riders turn in sweaty, water logged, crumpled, nasty score cards. next year we will have nice laminated stuff like at the durango event this year. little touches like this will make the trials community look much more professional and will present people with a better image of trials. it may be picky but the details can make all the difference. Hopefully we can get some music playing at events next year too, at least in the spectator crowded areas.

ok well, that's basically what we ahve on the drawing board for next season. if you have anything to add, please do post your thoughts. though we might not be able to put it into action, we do want to hear ideas.

 

[OTAdmin]

Kevin,

First, I wanted to say Thank You! We are very lucky to have you here in Colorado. You do a lot for the sport, and incredibly intuitive thoughtful posts like this are just the tip of the iceberg. Mike Desalvo's got himself a big one!

Second of all, I can't say there is a single thing I disagree with in your post. I think sport on up should be riding under UCI rules. It's better for everyone if no one gets started riding with pedal/bash and then has to convert to UCI when they advance.

We have some very good Pro riders here and if they want to be able to compete at a high level at world events, they need to be pushed more at home.

We'll be missing a vocal expert/pro rider next year, so the behavioral changes shouldn't be a problem.

Primary problem: These things cost money and man power. An Extra 5 sections for pro, Better cards, demo equipment and setup before awards, better prizes, and decent acknowledgement (read announcing, awards with a crowd, etc) from MSC are just the things off the top of my head. Do you have any ideas on how to get these done (funding and manpower)?

Hope that last bit doesn't upset anyone, but it's something that we need to address.

Bill

 

[WhiteRavenKS]

thanks for the good words Bill!

as for the man power issues- i know what you're saying. it is going to be tough. the extra sections needed for pro stuff shouldnt be too bad. little more time and planning should smooth this out. now that we kind of know how to get things done from this year, we should be able to set up much more efficiently next year. we cant be comping like 5 people at every event. it would be nice to have five people help i suppose but we just cant give everyone free rides. maybe one more person can get comped and then one or two more can stay in the room with the crew for the night or something but free entries cant be handed out like candy this season. maybe instead of comping entrees we can give volunteers first diibs on prizes? something, we can figure this out later though.

the score cards shouldnt be too bad. the lamination thing is like 30 bucks and packs of 100 slips are like 10 dollars. not too bad, if the msc cant foot that i will just because it's a damn good idea. it would be nice to have them and have each one unique to the event- have the event logo printed in the corner, somethign like that. plus it would be nice for riders to be able to take these home and put the on the fridge or whatever. not too many people want the nasty ruined paper ones back

as for prizes, i think between trialsin, webcyclery, try-all, woodman, magura, WRFP, biketrials.com, and maybe some other companies, we should be able to scrounge up some goodies almost everyone can enjoy. or at least i hope so. even the old plaque stuff is better than nothing. i dont know what the msc has planed for everyone else but last year we had complained about getting nothign but a stupis plaque- well guess what, thats pretty much all everyone else got too. stinks but its better than nothing like i said. maybe we lost sight of the sfact that we came for a comp not a solid gold medal or something.

as for awards ceremonies- we have been getting the shaft now for two years. every one in a while we go slipped in with everyone else but fo the most part we were the end of it all when everyone had left. considering how small we are and how few of classes we have to announce it shouldnt be much trouble for the msc to slip us in at the begining of the dh awards or even in the middle or something.

eric jean, though not having the best past with trials, is willing to work with us this year and make things happen. he's a ncie guy that i get along with well. hopefully with some good ol' fashion mutual respect and just staying out of eachothers hair at the events, thigns will get better. he wants trials around because he wants it for the spectators and wants to see cycling grow. if we can start makign him some money too, im sure things would start getting even better. despite the past experiences with him and the trials crews, he is an avid cycling fan and wants to see growth in all aspects.

another marathon post, sorry bout that. anyhoot- matt, thanks for the good words and hopefuly if you are around next summer you can have a good time at the events!

 

[OTAdmin]

Sounds like a good plan, I hope I'm around next summer to see it all come together... but no guarantees :hs:. Theres nothing else I can really add, thanks Kevin!

 

[AndyT]

Kevin,
We'll be missing a vocal expert/pro rider next year, so the behavioral changes shouldn't be a problem.
Bill

I'm on vocal on the internet, and to your faces. At comps? Not necessarily. I can think of another rider very close to me who would be much more vocal in terms of at comps. One of the big reasons I quit is because of all your “behavoirs”,

"Behavoir changes: the trials community is hanging on by a thread in the mainstream racing scene. the last thing we need is to alienate ourselves out of it completely. this means ALL riders need to be on their best behavoir at these events. no huffy chucks, no screaming obscenity, no helmet tosses. all this stuff reflects incredibly poorly on the sport. sure we all get mad at times but a trials event is neither the time nor the place to vent that. any one who cant keep their frustration in check is not welcome at events next year and outbursts will result in DQ action and will be asked to pack up and leave. trials is really fun to watch for spectators but with little kids and church ladies watching we cant let "fuck this piece of shit bike!" be heard. "

You don't realize this kevin, but that will make trials riders even more annoying to the general public. It will be like a bunch of van schoonhovens, I shudder at the thought. There will be no personalities, nothing to market except nerds riding uninteresting things- freak shows like always. I've heard people talk about ripstoke productions demo team, and how gay and cheesy it was- and I guess that’s fine with you because its more your personality: but I'm afraid that’s the majorities ideas, and you have problems seeing that. I'm pigeonholed as an asshole, don't get get pigeonholed as a complete tool because you won’t get out...


In terms of next year- the only thing I really wanted this year was hard sections. There were none that I can think of, besides my comp but you didn't bother to even ride through it. Another thing you didn't get to feel the sting of is being ripped off at each event from the mtn states. Because you and your buddies set up the courses (how it takes you all day to do that, I will never know) you don't have to pay 30, 40 dollars to ride an event. I'm not strapped for cash, but for me to spend ~100+ dollars to get to an event and compete, win it and get nothing except a 10 cent piece of paper is ridiculous. I'm sure you'll take care of this for the future.

Ponchos natty comp was the best comp I've ever been to in my life, bravo Poncho- beautiful terrain, well organized, beautiful sections, great prizes.


edit:

And kevin, I had an IDENTICAL outlook and personality as you at your age. Don't think I'm just attacking you, hopefully I can help you out through my own experiences. There is no substitute for experience, no matter how smart you think you are and how much of a dipshit you think I am.

 

[Elan]

sport should be uci, yes.

as for andrew and behavior, all the comps i went to he was very respectable. i hope that there isnt going to be any formal type of behavior shit that goes along with the comp scene, id hate to see the colroado trials scene ( a very unique and diverse community) end up anything like XC or road, we all know how they are. side note- trials scene is getting bigger, but at the expense of some key people, it makes me sad.
hard sections like horsetooth are scary. HAHA, yes, i suck. :greddy:

manpower- ill help out as much as possible, but im a last-minute kind of guy, so my schedule is evercahnging.

and what ever else... :bigthumb:

 

[WhiteRavenKS]

andrew- thanks for your input. i know you have been pretty good in the past about acting proper at events. one thing that we can't have with the msc next year though is throwing bikes and screaming obscenity. i couldnt care less in private on group rides and such but at events where people are watching it's a different story. the last thing the trials comp scene needs in the msc is some one getting all offended and going over our heads to EJ, that will pretty much kill it for good.

somehow i just cant see taking up an attitude of the skate scene as being benifitial to the trials scene right now. at our own (i mean the independent trials comps) i guess we could do more of what ever we want. at the msc events we are trpically in mountain towns where families are vacationing in the summer. i get the impression these families wont think trials is "cool" is we are throwing hissy fits and chucking stuff around. if we are going to be a part of the msc, we need to play by their rules, this is part of it. i dont want us being a bunch of damn roadies or xc fairies but we do need to act in a professional manner.

as for hard sections- with what we were given to work with this year i would say we soemhow managed to pull off some sections that were not half bad. i would have liked to see everythign harder as well but with the given materials and the short line we were on, it just couldnt be done. it's hard to build sections that are fun and a challenge. what's the point of makign sections so hard that it does nothing but piss everyone off and make everyone not want to ride. hopefully this year will see more budget for materials, more time, more freedom in terms of what we can use.

i know you were frustrated with the prize crap last year. a lot of people were. while i may not be ripped off in the wallet i do get ripped off in time. how futile is it to put in some hard work into somethign that is held back from reaching its potential. i could have just as easily been at work making money rather than trying to come up with somethign and having it turn out like poo because elemets of it were beyond our control. the pro prize money is something i really want to push for. im sick of seeing a trials pro being treated as less of an athelete as a sh or xc pro.

thanks again for your input, the more i get the more i can add it all up into what will hopefully be a better season. in the end, if it doesnt work out at all, i know not to come back to the task the year after this season. experience is the best teacher- i agree with you there. i also agree that it doesnt matter how much i think i may know, im only 17- i still fall into the catagory of people i think cant know shit about shit, only experience can get me fully educated. anyways, i keep rambling, thanks andrew for your input- the people that are the most dissappointed in the system are the ones i can get the most valuable info from.

elan- you sure are goofy but you are some darn good help at comps and whenever you can help out, we would be glad to have ya around!

 

[Elan]

yea, i try.. haha.. im going to have my truck fixed (its huge), so we can do some heavy duty importing in the case of comps like keystone where there is limited obstacle material.

and aboot msc. i guess that its understandable that there are some sacrifices to be made in lieu of spectator/rider turnout, and what ever prizes they may provide. just wondering: i dont know what it goes into, but is it sensible that it costs $40 to compete in MSC events? is there anyting we can do? or is it purely MSC grounds? aight... ttfn

 

[Fast Fashion]

no comps for me. i will ride, but i don't like where this is going. too proffessional. feels like a highschool sport or something.

my favorite comp was nathrop and everyone bitched about it. so this is the opposite of what i want. people need to get hurt.

good luck to all.

 

[AndyT]

Dolphin just wait untill we pull handplants on 8 foot tall spines in our first bmx comps.


ok probably not


I HAVE A COMPUTER NOW! OMGZ hi2U

 

[AndyT]

Any more news on this???


Expert/pro split is KEY.