Lenosky -vs- Hermance on TV today

Discussion in 'Observed Trials Discussion' started by DaneBrammage, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. DaneBrammage

    DaneBrammage Guest

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    So in the tiva games there was a speed trials course, and the heats brought Jeff and Vincent head to head. They did two runs. Lenosky had front suspension, Hermance on his rigid. Jeff rode his bike very smart and used all the advantages front suspension could give him on that course- meaning he didnt use strictly trials based moves all the time. Also his gearing was higher and he could pedal the short open sections quicker/easier. Vincent used more pure trials moves (of course) and was basically quicker through all the sections except for the last one: a ladder going up about 10ft then a few foot gap down to a ramp. Vincent had to work his legs furiously approaching and onto the ladder, then backwheeled down onto the ramp. Jeffs gearing made his pedaling more natural and then he oozed over down onto the ramp, using his suspension, in a way that was faster than backwheeling. He beat out Vincent by a fraction of a second on both runs, though it all came down to Jeff dropping faster, mtb style, over that last obstacle.
     
  2. Mehukatti

    Mehukatti Guest

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    pretty amazing result from vincent, considering that his bike is not really suitable for speed trials in my opinion. i would have expected jeff to win by a much bigger margin, but i guess that just tells how amazing rider vincent is. btw, could someone capture that program and put the vid up?
     

  3. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    I have full video of every single run.


    What I don't seem to have is the time or interest to put it up.
     
  4. oicdn

    oicdn Guest

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    I think that's because Hermance lost ;)
     
  5. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    Not really, the only reason I came to it was jeff called me. I wasn't expecting anything from vincent.
     
  6. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Well-Known Member

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    in the video i shot vincent never went to no damn ramp- he dropped straight to the ground... the ramp was the arbitrary finish line or something? jeff rode way fast, he would have pushed clark had he not taken a spill in the final run.
     
  7. Elan

    Elan steve french

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    i was there, and i got roped into helping with the course "remodeling".... it wasnt a "trials" course in any respect, what so ever. the fact that vincent even placed was in itself an amazing feat. the only thing REMOTELY trials-y was the first spine in the beginning, and its obvious that vincent got over that just as efficiently, if not faster than the other guys ( lenosky, chase, clark) but the rest of the course was suited for speed. like i said, the fact that vincent even placed is crazy. the course was rigged for street bikes, not trials.
     
  8. Jeff Lenosky

    Jeff Lenosky Guest

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    Yo guys,
    I caught that show today too. It came out pretty decent. Vincent is absolutely amazing, and I noticed that he as well as Chris Clark both holeshotted me like crazy off the line. Both of them were on thier trials bikes, while I had my "street" bike with a bigger gear. I pretty much trailed the entire race until I could get the cranks spinning towards the end to catch up. They were close races for sure. At Sea Otter a few years back I got beat by Chase when I was on my trials bike, it was the same deal though, I'd get the good start but he'd catch me at the end with the bigger gear. The thing that impressed me the most about Vincent was that he stayed in his trials gear the whole time, he didn't even go one gear harder! I personally think the course was great. The goal was to have it set up so that riders of several different disciplines could approach it with thier respective styles and be competitive. The unfortunate part was Vincent was the only true World Class trials rider there, no offense to Mike Stiedley. Vincent held his own against me, Porter and Chase who are supposedly at the top of the "street" game and Chris Clark is a damn fast speed trialser. Had thier been more euros there it would have been a great mix. I don't think it's fair to say the course was "to street" just because some expert trials riders couldn't hang with us, if there were middle of the road street riders there, they would have gotten killed too. It's all relative. It was a fun event, and in my opinion, that's the way courses need to be if the sport is going to get more popular, it's about racing, not just making it throught the course.
     
  9. morley

    morley New Member

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    Could you please explain what a trials course is then... From what I understand anytime you place tape over, on, or around an obsticle it is considered a section. That obsticle could be a half pipe or a big moss covered rock in the end it's irrelevent. The test is to get from one end of the section to the other, and in this case it was a test of speed.

    Today trials seems to fit a vague generalization made up of gaps, taps, and a few drops thrown in for good measure ... round cylanders anyone?

    ;)
     
  10. Elan

    Elan steve french

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    Jeff: you are absoluetely right. the course was set up pretty well IMO, and i dont think it could have been better for the competitors and spectators. i was basically just saying that the fact that vincnt on his PURE trials bike, did amazingly well.
    basically my whole past was in resoponse to dane's, i was just clarifying how well vincent actually did, considering the conditions.


    by saying it wasnt a "trials" course is 100% accurate IMO. obviously this was a SPEED TRIALS course, the point of my post was only to say that the course was set up "street" style... maybe for anyone who didnt understand this or whatever? i dont know. if it were trials, the guys like clark, lenosky, and porter wouldnt have had a chance, just like it was really difficult for the guys on trials bikes at the Teva games. but at the same time, it probably wouldnt work as well with the crowd if there was just a taped off section with a few ups and drops and gaps and stupid pointless trials stuff, and just as jeff said, it wouldnt accomodate a diversity of riders or spectators. i think the whole event went off really well. and i was very impressed by the skill of the riders, street and trials. i wouldnt attempt half the shit on that course.




    could you please not be a douche morely.
     
  11. Mehukatti

    Mehukatti Guest

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    was the course the same that was shown in the 'AndrewTvincentH.mpg' vid?
     
  12. Rob.K

    Rob.K Guest

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    From the many posts I have seen him make I don't think that's possible Elan.

    And a "Half Pipe"....:ugh2:


    What Elan said is true and I agree with him.
     
  13. BrettM

    BrettM New Member

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    Looked like a trials course to me. If it wasn't I don't think Vincent would have hung in there so well. He is a "pure" trials rider is he not? The object of this trials course was speed and fan appeal. You can't design the section the same way you would a regular trials section. Bigger and a bit more wide open is the way to go. Seems like they did a pretty good job to me.

    Rob.K its nice to see you have a thorough understanding of trials and of Morley after only a few months involved. Have you figured out how to get your cranks or bb of you frame yet tho? That is so much more complicated I bet...

    I wish section builders would use a lot more creativity these days. I've heard stories of some crazy stuff from back in the day. Something that is challenging in a regular sense but at the same time you don't know what to expect. An example I heard of was a box that would generally be an up to bash or rubber. They covered that in roller skate wheels. What's so wrong with a half pipe? I doubt I could do the real deal. I think it would be pretty entertaining to watch.
     
  14. tybikes

    tybikes New Member

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    No offense to anyone, but I think it is funny that people are arguing about individuals' bikes or riding styles excelling them or holding them back in an event like this. Vincent was on a low geared, long trials bike, while Jeff was on a street rig, arguably giving Jeff an advantage. If you asked Vincent what bike he was most comfortable on and felt most capable of succeeding on, Im sure he would answer his "trials bike". You are most likely to succeed in trials/speedtrials/street on a bike that you are most comfortable on, not what people have deemed to be the best setup.

    Look at some past events. The first Red Bull Bike Battle was won by a guy riding a mod bike, while most everyone there was on a stock or street bike. Eddie Tongue and Chris Ackrigg (sp?) rocked the UK Bike Battle on the bikes that they also rode in BIU events. Didn't Chris also place top 3 recently in a UCI event on the same Ashton that he uses for demos and street?

    My point is, when it comes to pros, they will ride what they are most comfortable on because they feel most capable on it. Thats why you still see some pros using suspension or "non-UCI" style bikes.

    As for the people out there who make posts without really thinking things through, you probably should start. Ask yourself "does this make sense?" or "do I even know what im talking about?" before you post nonsense. It will make this forum much more informative for everyone involved. Again, sorry if I offended anyone.

    Trevor
     
  15. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Well-Known Member

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    thank you for the awesome post. i read a ton of stupid crap on here and to read something like this is a nice break, i wish it would happen more often. anyone you offended would be the people who most need to read that last bit you wrote.
     
  16. Rob.K

    Rob.K Guest

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    Have you learnt how to spell "though" and "your" yet??

    Sorry but I never said I have a thorough understanding of trials and/or bikes. I'll keep my mouth shut a little more untill I am almost as wise as you and Morley.

    Actually I got the bike shop to take my bb and cranks off!! easier that way and here in poland about $4.
     
  17. TTownJon

    TTownJon New Member

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    There was one section at the Co. Springs comp that was pretty different then other sections Ive seen. It was a sorta mini-half pipe that the expert and pro riders had to up to and then ride through. they then had to drop off the other side and trials up some rocks and up and over a teeter 6 feet in the air and drop off. I thought it was pretty creative anyway.


    EDIT: since I am inept at explaining things, here are some pics that Sonic took:

    https://www.observedtrials.net/album/showphoto.php?photo=494&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500&page=2
    https://www.observedtrials.net/album/showphoto.php?photo=495&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500&page=2
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  18. morley

    morley New Member

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    Creativity comes with thinking outside the box...

    Perhaps some people view man made trials sections as a creative way to test a riders bike handling ability. Some of the old courses at Itadori over the years were a fine example of this. They had off camber spool like structures that spun in all kinds of crazy directions, and boxes that acted like springs causing the rider to fall at the slightest move. If you can grab an old OTM magazine from back in the 90's you'll see some examples of this progressive course design. One year in BC they had a banked wall that was used in a section and you’d be surprised how many riders who couldn’t ride the wall.

    So what is wrong with having a section that contains a 20' tall half pipe in it and the rider had to get down and up the other side? The section could contain other obstacles before and after it, but that's beside the point. Observed trials is test to get through the section with the least amount of dabs, so could you can explain to me how having a half pipe in a section doesn’t consist of a challenge for most riders. The reason I used the Half pipe as an example is because it’s an alternative structure that would provoke thought. However, I could have picked some of the trails on the North Shore and I am sure they would test a pro riders riding ability more then any obstacle that fits your definition of trials.

    Earlier this year I threw a competition that has about 35 rider show up and there wasn’t one gap, drop, or huge up. It was very old school BC style, and the sections were long and had some very big steep rock faces[think 75+ degrees]. Granted there were a few tech rock cliffs riders had to think their way up, the competition was based around testing riders and their bike handling skills rather then how big they can go. At the end of the day I've never had so many complements after a trials comp compared to other events I have ran.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  19. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    There was not a single move in the "speed trials" which required a trials bike or a pedal kick. Vincent was used to speed trials being trials, as in there being ups and rocks and actual hopping. The event was only pedaling and bunny hops. I don't know why vince wouldn't change gears, but when I asked him about it he said no....always that gear.

    Yes it is the same course as in my video.
     
  20. DaneBrammage

    DaneBrammage Guest

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    Keep in mind that the show is being re-aired on network tv over the weekend. It doesnt essentially matter a squirt of piss who won the competition; what matters is its a foot in the door for 26" 'mtn bikes' to be presented in an exciting way and hopefully create a buzz. The FOX show climaxed with the speed trials.. thats a good sign all by itself. Dont know if the networks use the same programming edit as FOX, but if they do, the they'll have a short segment with Mike Stiedley doing some natural trials. This would be the first time millions of people have seen trials on network television. Thats a big fucking deal for the sport.

    If trialsy riding can be packaged right, its not impossible to think it could make it into some of the mainstream and big buck competitions. Not X-Games necessarily, but who knows? A shitload of people own mtn bikes and having them do an 'extreme' thing like speed trials has a lot going for it. In England, since soo many more people ride and loads of them ride urban, the course could include a series of 3 or 4 rail gaps in a row of maybe 6ft length. Now that would be a spectacle.

    Anyway, the shows going to be on network tv this weekend.