Cous Frames Question

Discussion in 'Observed Trials Discussion' started by DangerousDave, Jun 11, 2004.

  1. DangerousDave

    DangerousDave Active Member

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    So I was looking at all these new frames coming out at ridiculously expensive prices.
    And then I got to the cous frame. And we all know I'm anti cous but these are some valid points...

    So here we have a frame that costs $950 us dollars.

    It has no fancy machining

    Uses no name tubing

    Mediocre welding

    Someone had to punch a hole in their frame to get out some loose welding beads

    Atleast on a frame such as the Xtp your paying for a lot of machining that goes into the frame. Is the cous stiffer maybe? It weighs more, so you could just put more material on another frame to get it the same weight and stiffness.
    So whats the deal?
     
  2. Andreas

    Andreas All About Trials

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    coust is stiffer than the XTP. people would go as far as saying it's painfully stiff.
    Also, there's something called good geometry, and not all frames have this. The coust does. As does XTP etc, but people seem to adapt to Coustellier bikes easier, faster, and are able to progress extremely quickly on them. Somebody can chuck together a few angles and call it a bike, but the coust had tons of time spent on it before it was finalized. usually a frame like this costs more$$$ than others.
    end of rant
     

  3. Elan

    Elan steve french

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    new xtp is like $2600 frame only
     
  4. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    I'd take either cous or xtp (oh wait..)


    I wouldn't pay 900+ for either though. If I was paying retail for frames, I'd be riding an echo.
     
  5. jimmybikes

    jimmybikes New Member

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    Jeremy rode both the XTP and the Coust bike, he liked the geometry better on the Coust bike and it was stiffer. If, he was going to be paying for a bike he would buy the Coust bike, or have a custom built bike using steel with the Coust geometry. Right now the Coust bike is his favorite bike ever, but it is the geometry that he likes the most! However he likes the stiffness and he believes the bikes will last, but he doesn't know this for sure!

    But Jeremy has only rode an Echo frame for only a few minutes and could not make a fair comparison about that bike. It sounds like Andrew has rode the echo enough to believe it is a better value, and maybe it is!

    Jim VanSchoonhoven
     
  6. Mehukatti

    Mehukatti Guest

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    coust is cheaper than xtp, ~800euros vs. 1000euros. atleast in this part of the world.
     
  7. Justin.L

    Justin.L Guest

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    uh...whats the difference in geometry other than the wheelbase?
     
  8. OTAdmin

    OTAdmin Administrator Staff Member

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    That's what i'm wondering. To someone like me, I highly doubt any subtle changes will matter. I'm sure they do for Pros though.
     
  9. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    through riding some of the flexiest frames (<4 lb woodman, 3.4 pound crescent) to some of the stiffest frames (xtp, coustellier)....I can honestly say, I'm 10x better and more comfortable on a flexy frame. The monty x-lite mod is probably the most enjoyable bike I have ever ridden in my 4+ years of riding.
     
  10. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Well-Known Member

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    xtp vs cous- head tube angle, bb height, chainstay length, weight. the cous is stiffer. but yes, go ahead and throw on some thicker tubes on the xtp, make it heavier, make it instantly ten thousand times better than the cous.

    it has no fancy machining- neither does the xtp... its not that fancy, some cnc mill can crank out 5 xtp yokes in a minute.

    it has no name tubing- the only trials bikes i have ever seen that had nice tubing was the team brisa b26d's made form the easton stuff and custom steel bikes made form stuff like thron, foco and plat ox tubing. no other trials bikes out there have "nice" tubing. just because a bike has tubing with an easton sticker on it doesnt mean it's necessarily any better.

    mediocre welding- i love how people think they can instantly tell everything about a weld based on a few pictures. aparantly i am just missing the gene that gives people penatrative x-ray vision that allows them to see down inside a weld. unless you order a frame from someone like say- desalvo bikes, chances are your bike is coming from the same place as ten other trials brands are coming from. big deal. if you think your bike is so original and special, think agian- it's probably not.

    some one had to get bits of shit out of their frame- yes, and so many other people have had to do this also... oh wait- smudge has been the only one so far. i have had two planet x frames with rattley paint can action inside the frame. if i use some of this logic stuff that means that 2 out of 2 of my px zebdi frames had little bits stuck in the tubing. based on this sample, all px zebdi frames have had this problem too! yeah right.

    im not tryign to start an attack or another rediculous stupid internet pissing match but i just want to give another, opposite side of what you are saying dave. people can take it however they want and weigh the sides out for themselves to see if the cous frame is all it's hyped up to be.
     
  11. pav

    pav New Member

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    what about the new XTP
    XTP 2
    what hermance is on
    how does that compare to the coust?
    frame prices are ridiculous in my opinion and its not many that have these top of the market frames
    i do agreee with coust, you pay soo much and look at wat dangerous dave said its not really that great, just different wheelbase to XTP
    and there are cheaper bikes with good geometry like ech/zoo/BT
    i just dont undertsand why koxx and coust have to price their frames so high!

    what is cost on XTP 2?

    pav
     
  12. WhiteRavenKS

    WhiteRavenKS Well-Known Member

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  13. DMArnt

    DMArnt Guest

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    I have been told that the Echo, Zoo and Koxx bikes are made in the same factory with the same materials and the same welders/workers. The rides that the pros have are usually custom made with a little bit more time spent on the prep work and the welds.
    I have not been to the factory in China so I have not seen this first hand. However, I would not be suprised if this was true.
    Anyone heard the same?

    :werd:
     
  14. AndyT

    AndyT New Member

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    1. people like to make money


    2. people are stupid (not necessary for this argument, but I'll throw it out there)


    3. people like to have the "best" ... sometimes no matter the cost.
     
  15. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound Steffen L.T.

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    The only thing I dont understand is why the coust is SO stiff if it comes from the same factorys as all the others?
     
  16. Raub

    Raub Guest

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    Because the tubing is big, and welded really quite well from what people say, although this thread does seem to prove otherwise!

    Have you ever seen one in a picture with a normal aluminium frame? The toob's are hooge :s
     
  17. jmkimmel

    jmkimmel Active Member

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    jesus h. christ!
    there's not a single person on this forum (TRA included) that could FEEL the difference between welds. If it holds together on initial ridining, then it'll FEEL the same until it breaks. So...until someone breaks an echo...zoo....coust...etc. The only input you'll have is on the tubing/geo. Fuckin' A - amigos - I know we're all gearheads/tech-weenies, but there's something to be said about just riding your bike. I just bought a BT, and until it breaks, the geometry ain't that different from a bunch of other UCI bikes with higher price tags. When somebody breaks a Pure, let me know - until then, welds don't mean shit. Yeah, some bikes have higher quality welding, but if you're not riding moto, how often will any production bike exhibit catastrophic failure? There's a lot of things on our bikes that have much higher rates of failure, but everyone focuses on frames dying. Much respect to well-built frames, but we're not riding on them for 40 years like most of Desalvo's frames (road), nor do trials bikes deserve the attention to detail that more will-be-well-cared-for frames do. Drunk rants are the best, yeah?
    Kimmel
     
  18. rider

    rider New Member

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    Ha ha ha, fucking true!!!!
     
  19. steven

    steven Guest

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    i have this xtp : http://www.nopogo.org/npgarticle.php?id_article=4

    (older than first xtp in sale)

    i have try the last xtp... i prefer mine..; i have chainstay of 375...

    but mine is a prototype so little heavier.

    and i have try coust ... i hate this frame... it is very short... i know a lot of english riders like short bike, so perhaps you will like it... but my koxx is : 1085 and i say it is too short for me... but the coust one is 1065...
    (in france we love looooooooong bikes :) )
    moreover there is too much tube at seat tube... and at finals, this give a bad equiliber between front and rear... the frame is too heavy !!

    and for price... koxx is expensive... it's not good for us... but they have developped a lot !! for the cnc yokes or other piece cnc ... there is a lot of dev. but on coust... there is nothing i see which could cost a lot... perhaps the stickers "world champion"... and this frame is the same of the zoo...(python...) which is better i think !!
    i think coust use their world champion title to sale their frame...
    but it's not good for them.

    argggg fuck !!!! i am a shit in english language !!! sorry guys.... if someone want to give me some lessons of new (usual) english
     
  20. Rob.K

    Rob.K Guest

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    I agree..................Bt's rock BTW. That new 5.0 and the 4.0 are solid frames.