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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What makes one bike video better than another?

There's some many components that make a good video
- location of footage
- proper filming (angles, HD, and fancy camera work etc..)
- proper editing
- music selection and so on.........

but these components can't make a great video. Even adding the best riders in the world to the mix won't make it a great video.

Why? It's not ORIGINAL. It's that bloody simple. We aren't the first people to do it and therefore we aren't blowing the average Joe's minds!

Trials is a repetitive sport and to make it worse, the majority of the videos released just show the same damn moves on different bloody walls. Our video's (Jeff Anderson and I) are no exception. They suck and we all fucking know it.

HOW is it that some videos get millions of hits, whereas equally talented riders can only get a couple thousand?

ANSWER - You're not original. Thats a fucking FACT. Welcome to the world of marketing.

So the big question here is this - Can you think of anything that you want to see someone do, but have never seen before...? Bike trials related of course....

For example: riding on a floating platform with obsticles in the middle of the ocean being towed by a speed boat.

THINK! and thanks for your ideas :)
 

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Trials Monkey
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416 Posts
I think the next big thing is going to be front flip drops and such. Like, flying off a 6ft ledge and slamming on the front brake, and landing on the back wheel. Sounds scary but i don't think it's actually as hard as it sounds because effectivly you are only rotating just over 180* though the air, not 360. :x:

But I agree with you 100%, the only reason Danny Mc's vid as so huge is because it was so original. If someone else brought out a vid like that now no one would care.
 

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werkinit
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3,236 Posts
Um........

I had this idea I would never do, of doing a trials demo or even a comp section which involves a living room or other house room set up. coffee table, couch, lazyboy chair. Doing stuff like sidehop over the back of the couch and bouncing a few times then over to the coffee table. Then gapping to lazy boy and on landing, popping out the foot rest etc etc.

Maybe a high speed Danny Mac version of Hans Rey's highway display.
Only riding from one car to the next. jumping onto bus roofs to cars along transport trucks bla bla bla.

Another idea has me doing gay ass one handed pogos on my bike while a
bukkake orgy goes on around me.
 

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I farted.
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1,480 Posts
I dont believe its as easy as coming up with some gimmick like being towed by a boat or hopping on molten hot lava.

The bottom line is (like you said) marketing. And sports become popular when there is to at least some degree of predictability, or outcome that can be packaged and sold. I dont care what sport you are talking about, but the watching of that activity has become popular because companies sell it. Randomly making videos that constantly redefine the direction of the sport isnt going to be productive or necessarily make better videos.

Can trials videos be more creative? Sure, no arguments there. Trials isn't going to blow the average Joe's mind because its slow and foreign to them. They have no basis for comparison. Everyone on the street can say backflip, no one cares about pedal kick.
 

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did steve tell you that?
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71 Posts
actually i don't totally agree with you. i think we all pretty much blow average joe's mind. i blow average joe's mind as a mediocre sport rider everytime i'm out. average joe would probably still need training wheels if he ever rode a bike.

that said, there is something i have dreamt about doing but am not good enough yet to attempt. i'm looking for a video to help illustrate the point, then i'll be back to describe it.

EDIT: sorry for the shittiest video ever, but the only place i could find it was literally recording my TV. i'd love to see someone (or be able to) gap to a chain, perpendicularly, instead of a rail. i think it can be done, but i don't think i've heard of anyone attempting it. something like what this kid is doing, but on a bike and to a chain (sorry again for the quality, but you'll get the idea)

 

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Easy, just don't lead them as much
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1,799 Posts
Fire and/or sharks (with frickin' laser beams TTown make it happen).
 

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Two dollars... cash
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I guess trials is like jacking off to porn. It's a lot of fun but nobody wants to see that shit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The bottom line is (like you said) marketing. And sports become popular when there is to at least some degree of predictability, or outcome that can be packaged and sold. I dont care what sport you are talking about, but the watching of that activity has become popular because companies sell it. Randomly making videos that constantly redefine the direction of the sport isnt going to be productive or necessarily make better videos.

Can trials videos be more creative? Sure, no arguments there. Trials isn't going to blow the average Joe's mind because its slow and foreign to them. They have no basis for comparison. Everyone on the street can say backflip, no one cares about pedal kick.
Marketing is key. But before your skills are exploited for the benefit of a company (via sponsorship or whatever) you need to become noticed. and to do that you need to stand out from the rest...That's where the orginality comes into play.

Also... "Randomly making videos that constantly redefine the direction of the sport isnt going to be productive or necessarily make better videos."

I disagree. I enjoyed watching danny's video, so did the 12 million other people that watched it. Constantly redefining the direction of the sport (i.e. being original...) will make a more popular video. You can't argue with the statistics. (I know more 'popular' doesn't necessairly mean 'better', but in the context of the overall goal (getting more hits/views...) it's very similiar.

That being said, it's not good for the overall sport. The general population thinks what danny does is trials... clearly it's not.

Anyways, great ideas guys. Keep them coming :)
 

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"bmxer"
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1,501 Posts
I think the next big thing is going to be front flip drops and such. Like, flying off a 6ft ledge and slamming on the front brake, and landing on the back wheel. Sounds scary but i don't think it's actually as hard as it sounds because effectivly you are only rotating just over 180* though the air, not 360. :x:
working on it ;)
 

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Premium Member
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133 Posts
I don't know what is your point steve but i d'ont think every biketrials videos suck.
Yes it's sometime a bit repetitive. But a lot of sports are.

Moreover, there are to points of view:

- The one of the biketrials riders: We are probably more interested in watching nice moves, than outstanding locations.

- The one one everybody else: i assume they are more interested in seeing huge and impressive drops and gap. And i think danny mac "first" popular vid was that: impressive!


I don't know what you have in mind, but a lot of people think, having a danny mac style can attract people. Doing, spins, backflips....

But be carreful, trials have to remain trials....at least it's my opinion.
And danny mac have maybe crossed that line.

Anyways, i think a good biketrials videos have to be "rhythmical", with long and fast lines/sequences.
And the filming is very important. Travellings are cool.
Have a creative filming is important.

And there is not so much videos like that out there.
I think there is a lot to do about it before thinking to news tricks.
 

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Premium Member
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I think in the end, you have to consider your audience and your goals. If you are making a video with sponsorship in mind, you definitely have to include interesting lines and sell yourself as a step above the competition not in size of moves, but creativity and flow.

I've stopped viewing making trials videos as a way to reach out to non-trials riders, because the style of riding I do just isn't typically interesting to someone who doesn't ride (or even just rides mtn bike). Sure, the first video impresses people, but the second one seems to always get the ".....uh isn't that the same as your first one?" kind of reaction even if you have made significant progress.

I ride because it is fun, and have kept making videos to show the progression of myself and the people I ride with. I realize that most of the people that will enjoy my videos are trials riders anyway, so I make them with that in mind. I would say that most pure-trials videos are made this way (whether intentionally or not) and that it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If you are making videos to try to score sponsorship, I guess it is a bad thing, but then you have to consider your intended audience and change the way you ride/film/make videos accordingly. Bottom line, I think that trials is just not viewer friendly for the most part, so you are already at a disadvantage trying to make something that will have broad public success.


edit: peter, I'm working on it. Can you say thesis project?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think in the end, you have to consider your audience and your goals. If you are making a video with sponsorship in mind, you definitely have to include interesting lines and sell yourself as a step above the competition not in size of moves, but creativity and flow.
well said john. I'm looking to try and make a trials video thats creative and flows the moves together. it doesn't have to be a new trick, or a crazy location... but the video still must be 'original' or 'creative' ( I like your wording) in some way. This is what I'm trying to get ideas for.

yeah sponsorship is on my mind, but so is the advancement of trials as a sport... videos that make trials 'fun' and easy to watch will bring more people and money into the sport.... which is the end goal.

Hopefully these ideas inspire others to create such videos :)

Speaking of ideas, you didn't give one! haha
 

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wtflol
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5,713 Posts
I think the next big thing is going to be front flip drops and such. Like, flying off a 6ft ledge and slamming on the front brake, and landing on the back wheel. Sounds scary but i don't think it's actually as hard as it sounds because effectivly you are only rotating just over 180* though the air, not 360. :x:
Been done, years ago, got no publicity. He actually does the front flip from the rear and off a dumpter. I posted these vids about a year ago, got them from a Felt dealer CD.

[ame="http://www.vimeo.com/2381622"]Felt Pallet dumpster video on Vimeo[/ame]

Pretty rad, but meh, nobody (non riders) gives a shit about BMX. Everybody knows watching BMX videos are like watching a video game and a normal non-rider can't even comprehend how hard those things are and the trick is taken for granted. But when somebody does something on a MTB, that's not even 25% as impressive, it gets exposure because it's not as video game-like...

In my opinion of course...
 

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Ryan Thompson
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1,918 Posts
I'm working on a project for school right now which has required me to do some indepth reading into branding or positioning your cause which is essentially what your trying to do.....differentiate yourself from the 50,000 other trials videos. So, some things to consider when you're trying to figure out what you can do in your future videos(your brand):

What is your objective?
What problem do you need to solve?
What do you want to achieve?
What do you want others to think about you?
How do you want others to think or act differently?
Who is your target audience?

Understand "your" product
What do people think of your videos now?
Why do they think that?
What things separates trials from every other "cycling" video?
What attributes do you and trials own? Strong traits, abilities, and features?

If you spend the time you should be able to arrive at one short, understandable idea or message that separates your videos(brand) from the rest...

Then ask yourself:
What needs to change to meet my objective?
How do you need to change your brand?
What does your target audience want?
What do you need to do to change what people think of your brand or act differently?

Some have already mentioned that you have two markets: Riders and non-riders. If you are shooting to stir up the non-rider base, go to the source. Email your non-rider friends some Danny Mac style vids and then some traditional style vids...jog there brains as to why and what they proffered.

Also, I think focusing on what sets trials apart from other forms of cycling is worth while. What does trials do that is so special and other cycling disciplines that are more mainstream don't?
 

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Banned
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Great post..

Making any product or service is only as good as the creativity behind it..

In the case of a Trials video, does it solve any need? A need to feel vicarious? Rush Make your palms sweat? Take you out of your comfort zone.. Something!

Also keep in mind, as mentioned - the audience: If say, a marketing agency is watching the video, they video needs to be long enough to capture their interest and allow them to sit back, scratch their head and say.. "My GOD, we can use this!".

Some things that I find make great Trials videos, are the ability to see the technique nice and clear, like the last Giaco video. I feel like I am the one riding when I watch the video.

As for that last video.. Wowwee.. Impressive. If anyone ever ridicules you for not wearing a helmet, tell them to watch that video.. Made my palms sweat!

[ame="http://vimeo.com/7971914"]Giacomo - Winter Training 2009 on Vimeo[/ame]
 

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Premium Member
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Speaking of ideas, you didn't give one! haha
Fair enough. Maybe this isn't a distinct idea, but more of a general comment:

I've found people find it really intriguing when you use obstacles they can relate to (tables, fences, cars, parking dividers, etc)- things they actually come into contact with on a daily basis. And if you can do something creative with it, even better. That is the place that I think the danny mac video really did well, and part of what gave/gives Leech his allure.
 

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Premium Member
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I think the next big thing is going to be front flip drops and such. Like, flying off a 6ft ledge and slamming on the front brake, and landing on the back wheel. Sounds scary but i don't think it's actually as hard as it sounds because effectivly you are only rotating just over 180* though the air, not 360. :x:

But I agree with you 100%, the only reason Danny Mc's vid as so huge is because it was so original. If someone else brought out a vid like that now no one would care.
Its been done on an mtb, I believe it was the very first video of Danny Mac I saw and it wasn't on a ledge, just a ramp.
 

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wtflol
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5,713 Posts
Doing a front flip into matress' on a ramp is a whole different ball of wax than doing it OFF something with no ramp, and hardly any run up.

And +1 to TT, it's amazing how many people think getting onto a picnic table is such a feat. And the whole fence thing, don't get me wrong, it was fucking amazing, but the fact that it was a fence top made it alluring (it was relatable). He's done drops and gaps that were far riskier even in the same video, but those are somewhat overlooked because it's not really something somebody can relate to.
 
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