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Rob Drizzle · 09-15-2011, 01:30 PM

I have noticed lately that a lot of the pros have a certain stance while on the rear wheel. I’ll find some pictures but to describe what I’m talking about for now, it seems like the bars are closer to their hips, elbows are almost at 90* and close to their torso, forearms are fairly level. Their legs are almost fully extended and torso is slightly leaned back (legs and torso are reasonable straight meaning if you drew a line from the bb to their head it would be straight. Whereas the normal noob (me), my arms are more extended, elbows father from my body, torso more upright and legs bent more. My body typically is farther back over the rear and nowhere near as straight.

My questions:

Because pros do this, I assume that there are some benefits? Stability, pre-load power, center of mass physically closer to an edge when gapping?
Is there a good way to train for this posture?
When tweaking stem geo, is this something to keep in mind as an ideal?

Thx.

werkinit · 09-15-2011, 01:40 PM

Also add to this the robot like dead straight back and squared shoulders in all set ups for moves. None of this hunched over nonsense!

Yoda · 09-15-2011, 02:01 PM

Kenny

Gilles

sk8dad · 09-15-2011, 02:05 PM

Good post Rob.

I've been experimenting with that exact posture you're talking about. First impressions are it allows you to relax your arms shoulders and back significantly and gives you more subtly and precision during rear wheel hop setups (using only calves). It also lets you eyeball your rear tire placement better. On the flip side I notice that posture is a lot more twitchy and scarier because, as you said, you're looking right over the edge and a good foot or more higher...probably because I'm not very good at it yet.

Dethklok · 09-15-2011, 05:58 PM

their position is a huge advantage just for how much stress its going to relieve on your back and arms.

when Im hammering, filing, anything like that its always the same position, elbows in, better control and less arm fatigue.

Rob Drizzle · 09-15-2011, 06:21 PM

What I had in mind... I guess its just like Gilles, different angle.

**rush** · 09-15-2011, 06:41 PM

This is something I definitely focused on at one point while riding, it took a while but the muscle memory is now much more ingrained and it is a huge advantage to stability on your rear wheel.

To start, just pull the bars closer to you. You should notice the difference.

rupintart · 09-15-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rush

This is something I definitely focused on at one point while riding, it took a while but the muscle memory is now much more ingrained and it is a huge advantage to stability on your rear wheel.

To start, just pull the bars closer to you. You should notice the difference.

This.

If you look at this thread, you'll see the changes it made in just my pedal kicking and rear wheel stability alone:

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/f9/advanced-pedal-kick-help-37223/

I've started making a conscious effort at doing this even more so than I already do now and my gaps have made massive improvements in a relatively short period of time. Same goes for my ups, just not quite to the same degree.

shakes · 09-15-2011, 07:12 PM

AA+++++ good topic will return

shakes · 09-18-2011, 03:11 AM

So was messing around with this today...

Balancing was much much harder, but I got heaps more "spring" when trying to gap/hop. Maybe because I could pre-load more?

darkside · 09-18-2011, 03:17 AM

Beginners always have straight arms, leaning back, too much of a V-shape with their bike.

Pros/Elites will be much more upright, with bent arms.

It has a big effect on how you can preload and manipulate the bike. If you're just hanging on (arms to straight like a beginner), how do you expect to actually move the bike? You're already at the extreme of your physical reach. You have to take some initiative, pull the bike into you on rear, then you can push/pull/whatever-you-need-to to make the next move.

Henri · 09-18-2011, 05:27 AM

It's much easier to hold this position having one of those pogobikes. Almost comes naturally on them.

rupintart · 09-18-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henri

It's much easier to hold this position having one of those pogobikes. Almost comes naturally on them.

No, not really. If you watch that/those video's I posted where I was on my inspired, you'll see that's not a pogo bike and that was much easier for me to do things on with my arms bent. It's not easier, you're just not used to doing it.

wedontneedakey · 09-18-2011, 09:21 AM

I'm actually pretty psyched to find out about this. I always though that be leaning back with straight arms I would be more able to relax and us less energy on the back wheel. however, I can see how that's not true. Buy leaning back/straight armed beginner style, Your putting more leverage on your body and are actually wasting energy, while also having less control? I'm deffinatly going to try and work on bending the arms mor with the elbows in.

perkins · 09-18-2011, 09:22 PM

Good thread, Rob. I have actually been working on this lately... and yeah, it does help a lot. I have noticed it the most with my gaps to rear, as well as gaps to front. I'm able to get more power. Sidehops haven't changed a ton. Rear wheel moves are more controlled. I have been search for a good picture of Gilles bike to see what kind of bar angle he has... I pretty much have mine so the bars are rolled forward at the same angle as my stem, but it looks like his are waaayyy forward. Better on the rear... but worse for "normal" riding. Anyway, I think the bar angle will help you feel better when trying to get into this position. It's worth playing around with.

Rob Drizzle · 09-18-2011, 09:35 PM

Good info guys... Keep it coming. I think that this would be good for beginners who have yet to become comfortable in their riding style. So they can incorporate some more advanced posture into finding the sweet spot on the wheel before falling into bad habits... Like me. lol.

werkinit · 09-19-2011, 10:07 AM

I am currently working on correcting years of less than perfect body positioning. I have a mental reminder I call "proud chin" or "being snobby". Just before, going into and while coming out of the exploding crouch position, into whatever move (gap,sidehop gap to front) I make a point to be "a snob" by sticking my chin up,pulling my shoulders back,straightening my back and "standing proud". I think others have mentioned "looking on top of the wall" when sidehopping which is kinda the same thing. Another mental check is to imagine someone pulling up on a string which is attached to the middle of your skull. When you lift your head straight up it naturally puts your back and shoulders into that "straight" position. I borrowed that one from yoga. I can really feel the difference with side hops and gaps to front. I feel more " confidently commited" in mid air.

Cypher · 09-19-2011, 10:30 AM

I was working on that this weekend on some tech rock riding, and I found that when I tighten up it helps with pivoting on rear on more exposed/small area rocks. It's def something I will keep working on but at first pass it's a nice improvement...

matt tomlinson · 09-19-2011, 07:55 PM

i did some of this stuff after class tonight in a parking lot and i must say that it really works. i kind of feel retarded now for not thinking about this before and comparing my riding to pros.

the on rear position as stated above feels a little more weird at first but it still feels like it is in a balance zone on the rear, just not the regular balance zone. i tried this and i could pedal kick most of what i am guessing are 8ft wide parking spots and my side hop even though i couldn't do it on to anything felt like it could be higher as well. i would like to try and refine this and then see what happens.

stocktrials · 09-19-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkins

I have been search for a good picture of Gilles bike to see what kind of bar angle he has... I pretty much have mine so the bars are rolled forward at the same angle as my stem, but it looks like his are waaayyy forward. Better on the rear... but worse for "normal" riding. Anyway, I think the bar angle will help you feel better when trying to get into this position. It's worth playing around with.

Yep - Owen told me that from what he saw at the Worlds, Gilles has his bars rolled forward heaps... so much so that the backsweep almost becomes upsweep

Sam, once again I do the same as you. So that the "up" part on the bar is more or less in line with the stem angle. Good medium for normal riding, I don't like spending all day on the rear wheel anyway

bunta · 09-20-2011, 07:12 AM

After seeing Steidley at OTNdays I really started trying to change my postition, since hes so short on a sky2 it really exagerates the look of the technique

epicwheeltime · 09-25-2011, 06:27 PM

im such a faggot i found myself dissecting their footwear choices..kenny's $60 adidas skateboard shoes, and gilles' $200 la sportiva approach shoes..and is he wearing ankle protectors??

full-body leotard, bike decked out with ti bits...youd think guys would be more partial to superlight trials shoes

but im an armchair quarterback. i can sidehop half as high as most of the homos here that just started riding 2 months ago...and im criticizing the two best pure trials riders in the world

bunta · 09-26-2011, 06:23 AM

for all you good guys...

how much of your power seems to come from your arms?
after playing with this stance thing I feel like my legs need to do almost nothing,

Ive been working on ups to front a little above wheel height, I just push down then throw out my arms, ill post up a vid later

maltesian · 09-28-2011, 11:53 AM

I'm not certain of this. But bet if you have a higher BB and a higher rise stem, or maybe even longer,it prolly wouldn't put so much strain on your arms when you try to pull the bars closer to you.

**cwtrials** · 09-28-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltesian

I'm not certain of this. But bet if you have a higher BB and a higher rise stem, or maybe even longer,it prolly wouldn't put so much strain on your arms when you try to pull the bars closer to you.

True.