Comparing XTP2 and Coustellier [Archive]

Mehukatti

11-14-2004, 03:55 PM

BrettM

11-14-2004, 04:01 PM

Ya the Xtp if the head tube angle is slacker the coq pit of the bike will be slightly smaller than a bike with the same wheelbase, but steeper head angle.

As for strength has anyone had any good experiences with Coust frames yet? It seems if you were lucky enough to get one in good enough condition to actually build up that it broke a few months later.

It sucks that all these people who hyped the crap out of them and flooded forums with how great they were in the beginning chose to say nothing when things went bad. Personally I think if you are gonna put a review out there keep it complete. If things go wrong down the road you should be entitled to let that be known. I'm not saying to badmouth, cause things happen. But just a quick explanation of what happened and let people figure things out for themselves. Sorry for the last paragraph. Its a rant that has been building up for a while.

durkie

11-14-2004, 04:38 PM

heh. and i wonder how well the pitbulls are holding up compared to the cousts for all of the "zoo is a chinese piece of shit copy of a french trials masterpiece" talk that went on.

get the xtp. koxx is a reputable company, vincent rules, the headtube looks cool as shit, it rides really nicely, it's lighter, and cie coust compagnie seems like it's been sketchy as of lately.

DanBowhers

11-14-2004, 05:53 PM

I havent heard too much about Coust frames breaking, they looked really strong (at least Pfunders and shaun millers frames looked decent) however, I can say that I really wasnt looking to see if they broke because I could care less. I think the XTP is pretty frail. Ed put some monster dents in his and he is pretty small (but a beast, yes ed, you beast child) anyway I would say get the 1085 Levelboss, proven strength and right between the two wheelbases you are considering. Oh yeah and cheaper

AndyT

11-14-2004, 06:45 PM

Grahams and robbies are fine, and graham beats the shit out of it.

Matt

11-14-2004, 07:07 PM

cie coust compagnie seems like it's been sketchy as of lately.
Understatement of the CENTURY. :hs:

digby

11-14-2004, 07:29 PM

As for strength has anyone had any good experiences with Coust frames yet? It seems if you were lucky enough to get one in good enough condition to actually build up that it broke a few months later.

It sucks that all these people who hyped the crap out of them and flooded forums with how great they were in the beginning chose to say nothing when things went bad. Personally I think if you are gonna put a review out there keep it complete. If things go wrong down the road you should be entitled to let that be known. I'm not saying to badmouth, cause things happen. But just a quick explanation of what happened and let people figure things out for themselves. Sorry for the last paragraph. Its a rant that has been building up for a while.
I think your talking out of your ass.

Have you ever even seen a coust in person? Ridden one? Or are you just basing this off what youve read on the internat? I have one, ive been riding it since may or so. I am not the smoothest rider and I do crash alot. The downtube has been nailed by rocks, rails, ledges whatever, its dent free just plenty of scratches. The frame overall is great, not $1000 great, but it is a good quality frame that rides very well. The only thing I would change about it is the weight. If it was the same weight as the xtp2 it would be very tough to decide between the 2 frames.

I doubt the geometry differences between the 2 frames will make a big change in your riding. They are both great frames.

I think kevin is the only that has had a serious problem with his. His cracked but he's got 2 frames. I'm not sure what other problems people have had with theirs, but for mine the tolerance on the headtube is a little off, meaning I can put the lower headset cup in with my hand and take it out as well. It hasnt been an issue and I dont think it will ever become one.

WhiteRavenKS

11-14-2004, 07:35 PM

i find iits best to talk shit about a situation which has yet to be resolved. that is always good for business.

after seeing and being on both (at least briefly) i can say the xtp rides 'lighter' and the coust is stiffer. as for the forks, my coust is about 1090 with an urban fork on it. so basically pretty close to what the xtp would be running.

edit after digbys post- i have one frame... i have paid for two at this point but unless i ever hear back from them on the messages i have tried to get to them, it looks like i will have paid for two and ended up with one which is great- i totally love doing business that way. the reason i had pictures of two frames was because i recieved Patrick's here in denver in the same box (which is now being ridden by chris pitts). i dont have two frames but it would be nice if i got the one back that has a 'very small scratch' on it.

poutine

11-14-2004, 07:52 PM

I own a xtp2 and i hav eriden a coust.

A guy i know has had his coust since the beginning of the year.He only had bb thread and maggy mount thread problemes.All fix to the good old tap none the less.

Owning the xtp2 and trying his coust couple times.Both feal very close alike.

Both downtubes are very thing and dent easy.

I run a urban fork.He runs a brisa.I run a 15 mm by 110 stem.I forgot hsi but it made are front ends identicly the same height.

The xtp2 is a stiff mofo.And its lighter.

Go with the xtp2.

BrettM

11-14-2004, 08:22 PM

I think your talking out of your ass.

Have you ever even seen a coust in person? Ridden one? Or are you just basing this off what youve read on the internat? I have one, ive been riding it since may or so. I am not the smoothest rider and I do crash alot. The downtube has been nailed by rocks, rails, ledges whatever, its dent free just plenty of scratches. The frame overall is great, not $1000 great, but it is a good quality frame that rides very well. The only thing I would change about it is the weight. If it was the same weight as the xtp2 it would be very tough to decide between the 2 frames.

I doubt the geometry differences between the 2 frames will make a big change in your riding. They are both great frames.

I think kevin is the only that has had a serious problem with his. His cracked but he's got 2 frames. I'm not sure what other problems people have had with theirs, but for mine the tolerance on the headtube is a little off, meaning I can put the lower headset cup in with my hand and take it out as well. It hasnt been an issue and I dont think it will ever become one.

Not once did I mention anything aboots how either rides. But lets forget aboots that and I'll answer your first two questions anyways. Yes to both. I guess that makes me an expert in your books.

I talked aboots cases that have been brought up. Just because all you happen to know aboots is Kevin's case don't be an ass and assume that is the only case. It's not. I know that for a fact. The fact is a lot of frames have had bb thread problems. More than just Kevin's have broken prematurely by most any standard. This is fact. If you call that talking out my ass fine, but its the truth coming strait out of my ass.

Wow you hit the downtube on your bike. Last time I checked that means fuck all to a frame's strength. Very few frames will break from a downtube hit. 99% will break at a weld.

Just because you aren't aware of something doesn't mean it isn't happening. Maybe pull your head out of your ass before assuming you know it all.

MegamoMidwest

11-14-2004, 08:37 PM

YES! someone that uses 'fuck all' correctly! im not even going to get into this, but i will say that I am happy with my coust, magura mounts stripped and the BB doesnt thread in evenly so the cranks arent perfectly smooth rotating, but overall im happy with it. oh yeah and big fucking dents in the downtube, but all this made it seem like its a bad frame but its not, just pointing out negative things, I could whip out a huge list of the great things about this frame. cant say much about the XTP 2 though.

-Paul

BrettM

11-14-2004, 09:04 PM

Ignore the above post from the Coust owner Digby. Only Kevin has had problems with a Coust frame.

morley

11-14-2004, 09:24 PM

Official wheelbase for XTP2 is 1090mm with bent Forxx fork. Official WB for coustellier is 1080mm, but it is probably measured with a straight fork. And the XTP2 has a bit more slack head angle. So one could argue that with straight fork XTP2 WB would be about 1080mm. But considering it has slacker head angle, the frame could actually be slightly shorter than Coustellier? Does this make any sense? The point of this is that I'm thinking of getting a new frame next spring and if Coust doesn't produce a mk2 version of their frame, then I'll probably choose XTP2, and I'm just curious how it actually compares to Coustellier. Atleast XTP2 Long should be about 200g lighter than coustellier (which would imply that it is weaker?) Great post mehukatti... you bring up some real interesting points.

Yes you are right about the XTP being a tad shorter in terms of feel, I am not sure what the exact reach measurement regarding the cockpit on both frames is... but if you could get those measurements from a person then you could create a direct comparison in terms of stationary feel. [reach = centre of the bb to the centre of the top of the head tube].

I've had the opportunity to ride an XTP, and although it's not my style of geometry or frame material it had a really nice feel to it. The bike is definitely a pure competition style frame with it's emphasis on light weight and the subtle differences in geometry seemed to make tap based moves a lot easier then the previous level boss of similar size and setup that I tried.

Frankly the coust is grossly overpriced, and primarly what you are paying for is image rather then quality. I have also heard a few horror stories in regards to the frame quality controll... Anyhow, if you are going to drop that much money on a bike frame and you really enjoy the geometry of the coust then perhaps you should consider a custom aluminium frame builder. This would not only give you a very high quality frame, but you could pick different tube sets and get the exact bike that you are looking for.

Think global... ride local. :)

DanBowhers

11-14-2004, 09:42 PM

but i will say that I am happy with my coust, magura mounts stripped and the BB doesnt thread in evenly so the cranks arent perfectly smooth rotating, but overall im happy with it.
Ok I really didnt want to single someone out, but Paul, common man, this post is ridiculous. How much did you pay for your Coust? I think its ridiculous that your BB doesnt go in right and your magura mounts stripped. Think about how you felt (really) when this happened.

I am sure there are some Coust frames out there that are fine, super nice, the whole 9 yards, but I think the problem with this whole debate is objectivity. Coust owners dished out a lot of cash (well a lot in my opinion anyway) and they are trying to justify it. Look, for any mass produced frame you really should spend more than 700 (USD) AGAIN IN MY OPINION (speaking on hardtails)

oh well, i suck at life

vince

11-14-2004, 09:46 PM

WhiteRavenKS

11-14-2004, 09:51 PM

Ignore the above post from the Coust owner Digby. Only Kevin has had problems with a Coust frame.
my problem is with the company, not so much the frame. (after all, it was only a "very small scratch" anyways...)

BrettM

11-14-2004, 10:02 PM

Who is going to admit they paid to much money for a fad frame. And commenting on the stripped maggie mounts makes no sense to me. Aluminum is poor for threads anyway, so how could this problem be specific to cousts?
Aluminum is bad for threads. Different types of aluminum are better than others tho. Take that back to the post from ages ago justifying the Coust cost by all the R&D. Also when the hole is drilled to be tapped there is 1 proper bit to use and 4 or 5 that "will" work, but are very prone to stripping. Depth of the threads are important. Then there is lube and torgue which is up to the costumer.

Elan

11-14-2004, 10:12 PM

i have ridden both briefly. they both feel so much awesomer than a LB its not even funny. personally i would get a coustellier if they were still available. but they werent so i got a xtp2

smudge

11-14-2004, 10:27 PM

I vocalized my issues with the frame immediately upon inspecting it once I received it. They still stand. If I had to do it over again, I'd go with the XTP (if I could pay the same price).

Admittedly, I haven't had much opportunity to ride it since I've had it, but I do like the feel. I can't compare it against the XTP though. Being 190 or so pounds, the BB stiffness is welcome. I remember how much the pads used to rub the rim when I was riding my Crescent. It still happens now, but to a lesser degree. When I was prepping the frame for build, I can't say that I remember a BB thread problem, but I always tap and face before I install a BB. I did end up facing away a large portion of the weld at the CNC yoke in order to get the BB lockring to seat properly. And there there were the 5 pieces of shot stuck in the frame...and it's tad heavy...and not exactly aligned...and there's that weld through the vent hole...definitely too much money for the quality control.

I wouldn't buy it again. Good luck Kevin, I hope you don't get boned, especially in light of all the PR you've done for them.

digby

11-14-2004, 10:30 PM

As for strength has anyone had any good experiences with Coust frames yet? It seems if you were lucky enough to get one in good enough condition to actually build up that it broke a few months later.

brett - I fail to see how shitty brake/bb threads = broken frames. My problem with your post is that you assume that the frames are crap and theyre all breaking and all the coust owners are keeping quiet about it. How many broken ones do you know of?

For the downtube thing, everyone on here seems to think the coust is dent-prone, mine has hit alot of shit and the downtubes still fine. Obviously how well the downtube stands up to a rock or rail doesnt say much about how strong the frame is overall, but neither do bad threads.

I dont know how much everyone paid for their frames, but for those of us in the U.S. that ordered them early, we got a pretty good deal on them and it ended up costing about as much as a koxx levelboss. However if I had dropped a grand for it, I'd be pretty pissed if my bb was crooked.

BrettM

11-14-2004, 10:47 PM

brett - I fail to see how shitty brake/bb threads = broken frames. My problem with your post is that you assume that the frames are crap and theyre all breaking and all the coust owners are keeping quiet about it. How many broken ones do you know of?

For the downtube thing, everyone on here seems to think the coust is dent-prone, mine has hit alot of shit and the downtubes still fine. Obviously how well the downtube stands up to a rock or rail doesnt say much about how strong the frame is overall, but neither do bad threads.

I dont know how much everyone paid for their frames, but for those of us in the U.S. that ordered them early, we got a pretty good deal on them and it ended up costing about as much as a koxx levelboss. However if I had dropped a grand for it, I'd be pretty pissed if my bb was crooked.
I never said shitty brake and bb threads equaled broken frames either. I believe my exact quote was just because you can hit the downtube on a rail doesn't make it strong. I never posted that they are all breaking. I said a lot have problems. Read this thread for evidence. 3 owners of Coust frame (one being yourself) and a friend of an owner, all with problems. As for broken frames, I am aware of 3.

We are talking aboots a 1000 dollar us frame. I paid less for a fully custom, one off work of art with paint and expensive tubes. My paint job costs more than it cost the Coust company to buy one frame.

You are twisting my words around on me a lot. I stand on my original point that a ton of these super expensive frames experience, in my opinion, problems. If you don't consider a headset that goes in by hand on a 1000 dollar us frame a problem then I have no idea what to say.

Here is a summary of the Cousts involved in this thread:

Kevin's: "Small scratch" - read between the line
Digby's: headset pushes in by hand
MegamoMidwest: crooked bb threads and stripped maggie threads
Friend of Poutine's: also crooked bb threads and stripped maggie threads

Are there actually any people with 100 % perfect Cousts out there?

Faction Bike

11-14-2004, 11:19 PM

I dropped my coust for a huffy white heat....you should see the welds on this beast. Plus, it weighs like 12 pounds (frame only suckas). Sidehopping it like 10 jumbo palletes cresent rider. Yeah, TC for the DD. Plus now I'm all jacked and I have to beat the "Tonkery Rejects" off with a stick. FTC ferersrezers life.

11-14-2004, 11:20 PM

Mine is perfect. I rode it all season and I bashed the hell out of it. There are a few dents in the downtube, but that's not really an issue for me. Just put a piece of diamond plate on there if you are so worried about dents. I friend of mine also has a coust, and his only issue was the uglyness of the stickers. He is a really rough rider and his frame is still 100%.

Kevin, it's possible that your "crack" was just a crack in the clearcoat. I have many cracks in the clearcoat of my bike that I originally thought were frame cracks. If you remove the clearcoat you will see that the frame is fine underneath.

icecreamsammy

11-14-2004, 11:34 PM

Im happy with my coust, all the threads were good, but when i snapped my forks, it did pull my headset out, so I spose it cant be that tight a fit. How much exactly are the cousts in the US anyway? here in Australia i got mine for the same price as a levelboss, quite cheep in comparison.

11-14-2004, 11:46 PM

They were 675 US when they first came out.

BrettM

11-14-2004, 11:52 PM

Mine is perfect.
Now this is just what I heard. I'm not going to get into from who and how and all that but I heard the bb threads had to get re-tapped when you first got it. Not that you did just because, but that it had to be done.

Again this is just what I heard. Take it however you want.

MegamoMidwest

11-15-2004, 12:08 AM

Dan, although expectations were higher than maybe they should have been, problems are just problems, and working at a bike shop they really arent that big a deal to me. its not a big deal to tap and helicoil the threads, I probably should have done that in the first place to make it stronger. There is a long list of things that could have been improved and I am kinda pissed that there wasnt as much attention to detail as there should have been with such an expensive frame.
your right, it probably is rediculous that the BB threads are a little bit off and the mounts arent as strong as they should be but im not going to say that I am not happy I own this bike because this is the best bike I have ever owned bar none, regardless of the couple of problems. im not trying to justify anything, if its my 'fault' that I bought the frame then so be it.

Ok I really didnt want to single someone out, but Paul, common man, this post is ridiculous. How much did you pay for your Coust? I think its ridiculous that your BB doesnt go in right and your magura mounts stripped. Think about how you felt (really) when this happened.

I am sure there are some Coust frames out there that are fine, super nice, the whole 9 yards, but I think the problem with this whole debate is objectivity. Coust owners dished out a lot of cash (well a lot in my opinion anyway) and they are trying to justify it. Look, for any mass produced frame you really should spend more than 700 (USD) AGAIN IN MY OPINION (speaking on hardtails)

oh well, i suck at life

11-15-2004, 12:20 AM

Now this is just what I heard. I'm not going to get into from who and how and all that but I heard the bb threads had to get re-tapped when you first got it. Not that you did just because, but that it had to be done.

Again this is just what I heard. Take it however you want.Brett. I don't know you and we don't even know anyone in common. I think you have me confused with someone else. I have no idea where you got that from.

WhiteRavenKS

11-15-2004, 12:20 AM

Kevin, it's possible that your "crack" was just a crack in the clearcoat. I have many cracks in the clearcoat of my bike that I originally thought were frame cracks. If you remove the clearcoat you will see that the frame is fine underneath.
i did make sure to do this. i shaved away at it with a razor blade like i have many other suspected frame cracks in the past, some of them my frames, some of them customers' at the shop. when i saw it looked deeper than just the clearcoat i thought it might be a good idea to tell the coustelliers about it so they would be aware of it. i didnt want the frame to fail at a comp or something very public like that. hairline cracks are not that big of a deal but i cant tell the future and thought it in everyones best interest to help protect the image of their company. after the decision was made to send it back i was told it was a "small scratch" and that i shouldnt try to scam people for new free frames. i paid for my "warranty replacement" frame after a drawn out time of confusion (i didnt get an email attachment for whatever reason with thier bank info and didnt know where to send money, when i asked for their info i was told basically "you have it, just pay, its not that complicated"). i have yet to hear word on when i can expect to get the scratched frame back if ever at all. pay for two, have one to show for it. get ignored. sounds great to me. ive kept this private in the past but im frankly pretty sick of the situation so if it being public grabs their attention then good, maybe it will get something done.

aside from the company issues i have with them, my current frame had no issues. no bb thread problems, no brake boss thread issues. the headtube is good. no sloppy welds, no rattly shit in the frame. aside fromt he fact that it is really long for me, there isnt anything wrong with it. there are dents in it but oh my, i hit it on stuff... damn you metals for being malleable!!! i cant spell.

BrettM

11-15-2004, 12:26 AM

Brett. I don't know you and we don't even know anyone in common. I think you have me confused with someone else. I have no idea where you got that from.

No offence or anything, but all you even talk about is Blah blah blah UCI sux, blah blah, Coustelliers suck and Koxx is the best, blah blah. It's a bit tiresome. Stop talking about other people and worry about yourself.Did I say somewhere in there that I knew directly the person who it came from??? No I don't believe I did. Because you are right I don't know anyone you know. But I do know a guy who know's the guy who heard you say that and both are very reliable. There was also something along the lines of you saying it was a bit over priced and at the time you liked how your Zoo rode better. If you need more details the reason it came out is the guy I know sent a dude you ride with an email asking what you thought of the Coust frame once you got it and all that stuff. He did this because he doesn't know you and didn't wanna email you.

I'm glad you got me figured out. I'm probably the biggest fan of UCI in Victoria. It's all I ride. What I am against is the asses that try to put one set of rules as better than the other. Its retarded. Either way its dumb. Unfortunately all you ever see on forums is elitist UCI guys saying how much better that is. If someone came along saying how great BIU was I would put my opinion in there.

Now instead of talking shit answer my post. Did you have to tap the threads to put the bb in, unlike what you originally said? Maybe I'm wrong and got all the info all wrong. Unfortunately the two people it comes from I believe and the story makes a lot of sense. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. Your word against mine. I just thought I'd put it out there. Everyone can decide for themselves.

11-15-2004, 12:44 AM

I can kinda see where you are coming from Kevin. If they weren't going to warrantee your frame then they should have sent it back to you as is.

IIf the frame wasn't cracked, why would they give you a warantee replacement deal? And if it was cracked, why would you expect to get it back? I doesn't make any sense to me.

About the frame, I am not the type of person to follow blind faith or hype. I bought the Coust because I had the Zoo Pitbull and I wanted something a bit longer (I'm 190cm tall). If the frame was crap I would let people know. You can make up all the stories you want about about broken frames and it doesn't make a difference that the silent majority of people who ride Cousts are happy.

I remember when it came out, people were bashing it right away, saying it was too expensive, even though no-one paid more than 700 for their frames, less than a levelboss. Now those same people are riding XTP2's and saying they are the greatest thing ever.

BrettM

11-15-2004, 12:57 AM

Just to clarify myself.

I have nothing against the geometry. I have not too much against the materials, only when compared to the price. But I understand the small company deal to a point as well. I got nothing against those that ride one that want to. If thats the bike for you than by all means go for it. You'd be an idiot not to. I'm very aware that the owners of this frame are extremely happy, even in some cases despite little problems.

WhiteRavenKS

11-15-2004, 01:02 AM

IF the frame does have a hairline crack in it (like i honestly thought it did but im not saying im right 100% of the time) then they should have given me a new frame at no cost. IF it is not cracked then they should give it back to me seeing as how i have paid for both of them at this point. they did not give me a replacement deal. i have paid for two frames. i have done what i can to get this issue resovled. but now they have the original frame and the money for both of them. what reason do they have to give me the frame back. why not just ignore me? seems easier right? hard not to feel ignored here... but i understand it takes like forever to type out a reply to an email... it usually takes me over a month to reply to someone. :ugh:

11-15-2004, 01:13 AM

But I do know a guy who know's the guy who heard you say that and both are very reliable. There was also something along the lines of you saying it was a bit over priced and at the time you liked how your Zoo rode better.
No Brett, I think you're the one talking shit. Listen to yourself.

No, I didn't have to re-tap my BB threads. I had a shop install my BB. If you knew me, you would know that I never install my own BB because I am terrified of cross threading it. No, my maggie thread is not stripped. If you want you can come to my house and look at my maggie threads if you need proof.:rolleyes: Or maybe one of your reliable "sources" can check this stuff out for you.

Who told you this stuff? I really hope you are not making it up just to start shit with me.

Maybe its just a misunderstanding, but I don't know :dunno:I think you have had it in for me since the start for whatever reason.

BrettM

11-15-2004, 01:25 AM

Like I said above it was entirely what I heard. If its wrong than its wrong. Not a big deal I'd think. I'm not making it up. But I guess I heard a false story.

I think you got me way all wrong. Until tonight I had no idea you owned a Coust or lived in Toronto let alone Canada. There are definately some people out there who I know don't match my opinions and really let me know, but you were definately not in that category.

11-15-2004, 01:45 AM

11-15-2004, 01:55 AM

I don't think you'll have much luck with the compagnie in France. I remember that they pushed the release date back by months and didn't keep anyone informed. I'm glad I dealt with Faction Bike directly rather than the factory. One of the Coust frames I ordered was damaged in shipping. UPS covered the damage, but Faction Bike sent out a replacement frame the very same day, which was pretty surprising to me. I'm glad i didn't have to worry about all the stress of sending the frame to France or China or wherever it was supposed to go.

Mehukatti

11-15-2004, 07:18 AM

i have the following negative experiences about coustellier frame:

* bottom bracket threads indeed seem VERY low quality compared to for example Zebdi. For some unknown reason I was unable to install XT BB to the coust, and I had to get Try-ALL 128mm ISIS which went it just fine. no problems with the BB area since then.
* lower cup of my Chris King headset went in to the Coustellier frame REALLY easily, although not by hand. I don't know if it is the cup that has somehow loosened (front wheel hops) or should I blame the frame
* The frame seems to dent a bit too easily, I have one dent in the non-drive side chainstay and another in top tube (don't ask). This really isn't a problem since the dents seem to be only cosmetical issue and if you are good, you don't fuck up...

What is good about it:

* Geometry is nice! EXCEPT in some steep roll down situations one could wish for a bit slacker head angle, but on the other hand, the head angle makes the bike more flickable
* mech hangers are easy to get as they are used on many other bikes
* the highly polished finish is cool
* no cracks (although I have been riding it for something like 6 months only)

I would really like to see mk2 version of the coust with the following impovements:

* manufactured in higher overall quality
* better BB threads
* harder alu for the magura mounts?
* slightly reinforced head tube where the cups go in
* make it dent less easily (maybe use other kind of tubes?)
* add more cnc machined parts for more pimpness
* new graphics

But reading the rumors about Coust Compagnie, it seems that they are going out of business (how is that possible with the profit margin of their frames?).

zebdidude

11-15-2004, 10:38 AM

Sorry for the change in subject but...................

since many people feel the zoo! pitbull is the "shitty copy" of the coust, has it been having the same quality control issues? i have yet to really read anything poor about the zoo! so i wonder if this thread may change peoples minds about how they "copied" the coust design. perhaps the much cheaper version of the coust, the pitbull, is much better??? especially with the new "improvements" on the frame, i am sure it'll be a sweet ride.

Peace

11-15-2004, 05:33 PM

hahahaha good post, only thing ppl have a right to give Zoo! shit about is their business ethics... (copying)
So for everyone saying "look at the welds! shit crap fuck i want have koxx's babies!" can eat all that bullshit they spat out. They ride fine! strong as fuck! (Neil Tunnecliff. is a perfect example sp?) Light enough, Dunno much about metals bit it seems that "Ultra 6" stuff was a pretty good move for them! Like the above post, the new one looks like its gonna be a definite winner! but we will wait and see about that of course, dont wanna go givin it too much hype now.
Please dont hunt me down with gardening/farming equipment.
Peace

Elan

11-15-2004, 06:19 PM

11-15-2004, 06:24 PM

I'm glad you got me figured out. I'm probably the biggest fan of UCI in Victoria. It's all I ride.
Are you sure about this? From what I have seen in your videos there are lots of manuals and 360's etc...

morley

11-15-2004, 07:02 PM

Are you sure about this? From what I have seen in your videos there are lots of manuals and 360's etc...Are you not allowed to have diverse tastes? Who said you can't do manuals and 360's without liking UCI rules or the organization?

Just to clarify things... UCI is NOT a style, it's an organization that has a particular set of rules. I can't speak for the rest of NA, but those who are from the old school BC trialsin days and have been riding for more then 5 years called riding all rubber, NBR [aka nothing but rubber]... these days noobies and groms call it UCI and act like people from back in the day never rode all rubber or that you have to have some specific bike to do it.

-------

Back on topic... some people may think the coust is an ellite comp frame, but in all reality it's an overpriced lemon. Frankly I don't blame people for defending it... mabye they are a little dissapointed with what they got at the price they paid. Frankly... if I payed MRSP for that frame I would expect the primo shit, but then again that's why I buy custom and support indy builders. Not only is it cheaper, I get exactly what I want.

Elan

11-15-2004, 07:06 PM

UCI IS A STYLE FAGGOT.

cogmog

11-15-2004, 07:17 PM

I wouldnt say the pitbull is a shit frame. I am not an expert rider, but my riding ability has improved greatly since moving up form my old monty. It is definetly not as tested or tried as a coust, but FUCK, I only paid 400 bones for it! For 400 dollars, it could have all the same problems and I wouldnt care....but it doesnt.

Peace

11-15-2004, 07:19 PM

the zoo! is a shit frame that wasnt meant for competition, it was produced without any testing or any consideration of ergo's, weight, anything, it was built to meet a deamnd for low cost frames. I.E toyota corolla

the coustellier is an elite comp frame. the coustelliers tested that shit for how long before it was released? who knows how many designs they went through? the frame weighs how much less than a zoo!? I.E porsche

that said, both companies deserve to DIAFelan your fucking brainwashed, these arent cars! yes i understand you were usuing it as an example but a far fetched and over exaggerated one at that! Frames are simple, you chuck in the right geometry and your set! All this bullshit about R&D on frames.... yeah you muck around with a few degrees but cmon, Real R&D would be getting 10 bikes with exact same componentry but with different frame geo, riding them and feeling which one is different. What they really did was look at other frames and picked the geo they liked out of each one and incorporated it into a "different" looking frame so it looked original. But in essence its how the bike rides that matters. We all know this.
All of you guys who say they have ridden each frame and made a judgement on it... no one should take it into accounts because they werent EXACTLY the same, so you cant pass judgement on a frame and the weay it rides unless the componentry is EXACTLY the same, am i correct?

You put Gilles, Vinco, Belaey on a Zoo! and they would still win! so stop sayin zoos are less in quality and design your all just Brain dead and cant have a self thought opinion, All the frames are made in factories probably next door to each other and it seems Zoo! has the better factory cos apart from the very first batch of Zoo's that came out i cant recall hearing any broken....
Frames a Frame, dont get ripped off for a name.
Peace

p.s. that wasnt meant to rhyme, MC War.

Elan

11-15-2004, 07:20 PM

who cares? that debate is sooo March/04.

id go for the XTP nowadays, because koxx has clout. cousteliigay is shit. fuck that

DangerousDave

11-15-2004, 07:41 PM

Elan your a douche. Your exactly whats wrong with the internet.

no nothing, shit talking noob.

morley

11-15-2004, 07:50 PM

UCI IS A STYLE FAGGOT. cousteliigay is shit What's with all the anti gay rhetoric... slurs on ones sexuality or the colour of their skin isn't called for in todays society.

Elan

11-15-2004, 07:51 PM

:ban:

WhiteRavenKS

11-15-2004, 07:52 PM

elan, shut up.

Elan

11-15-2004, 08:01 PM

Elan your a douche. Your exactly whats wrong with the internet.

no nothing, shit talking noob.

learn how to spell

WhiteRavenKS

11-15-2004, 08:02 PM

get this back on topic. you bitches can have a cat fight someplace else.

AndyT

11-15-2004, 08:05 PM

Elan your a douche. Your exactly whats wrong with the internet.

no nothing, shit talking noob.

I don't care about this debate, but please let english be your 4th language.

*You're
*You're
*what's
*know
*shit-talking

AndyT

11-15-2004, 08:05 PM

learn how to spell
Sorry I didn't see this post :hs:

AndyT

11-15-2004, 08:06 PM

And kevin has been getting fucked from coustellier for a long time, I never saw the damaged frame so I can't comment.

DangerousDave

11-15-2004, 08:15 PM

I will be sure to watch my spelling next time I dis you

Tanner

11-15-2004, 08:22 PM

I will be sure to watch my spelling next time I dis you

OOOOOOOOOOh, so close.

BrettM

11-15-2004, 08:59 PM

Are you sure about this? From what I have seen in your videos there are lots of manuals and 360's etc...I'm pretty sure yes. I'm sure I could put in lots of taps and sidehops, but every single other rider out there is doing that on tape already. I do all that as well and don't have anything against it, but I am very picky on what I want in a video. I'm into the progression stuff. I put what I want on video based on what I like seeing on video. You don't have to like it tho.

Actually nevermind. I ride only how you see me ride on the net and think only how you see me think based on what you read on these forums...

Also what is with the spell checkers all of a sudden? In your combined 10000ish posts have you guys never spelt a fucking word wrong or something? If its close enough to know what he's talking aboots just let it slide.

As for your original car comparison post Elan you are so far off that I'm not even sure I have enough time to show you why. Here's the basics. Not every rider is the same size or the same style. Every rider has a geometry preference that they will ride better on. The Whostelliers could spend billions on the frame and make it out of whatever they want. If its not your geometry its not the best frame for you. I thought it was a very simple concept but I guess not.

The Coust frame definately isn't the best frame for me, but neither is the Zoo. Since the geo is different there will be people who prefer the Zoo over the Coust and will ride it better. Get over it.

Heres an example of how your theory fails so miserably. Remember that company called Brisa? Put more money into the R&D than absolutely anyone out there. Nobody can touch them in that sense. What kind of frame did that give them Elan? A perfect, comp, UCI, tap happy machine? If the Cousts did in fact put any money into R&D and all that bullshit you just made up I would sue the frame maker. They got absolutely nothing to show for it out of them.

Elan

11-15-2004, 09:15 PM

Ed Gildea

11-15-2004, 09:31 PM

for the retards.

xtp > cous

BrettM

11-15-2004, 09:33 PM

You finally figured it out in your last line. It is only your opinion that matters to you. To you the Coust is the better frame. That is it. That is absolutely as far as you can take it.

The UCI and Brisa thing was a joke. Take it that way and you will see what I was getting at. R&D doesn't do a damn thing for anyone else but yourself. Yes it can be effective on others, but they have to be ok with it. If I spend a million dollars and somehow came up with 1017 mm is the perfect wheelbase for a UCI frame would that make me right? Only if you like a 1017 mm for your wheelbase on your UCI frame. See where I'm going?

I also didn't realize you were so close to Zoo when they designed their frame that you happen to know that they picked their geometry by putting a bunch of random numbers in a lotto ball machine and just using what came rolling out.
An intelligable insult???????? UCI IS A STYLE FAGGOT........ring a bell. Its screams intelligence doesn't it.

Elan

11-15-2004, 09:58 PM

Elan

11-15-2004, 09:59 PM

edit :serena williams just got SERVED

Burn

11-15-2004, 10:00 PM

well i happen to think that if one is going to take it upon themself to insult someone, they should at least make hte attempt to write an itelligable insult

yea, brisa has an awesome uci STYLE bike. i thought they were made for BIU competitions. my bad. your brisa comparison was as bad if not worse than my car comparison.

all i was saying is that zoo! had no or little regard for the geometry of their frame, as long as it looked like the st. blaise, that was their goal. i never said the coust was the wonder bike of the century, i was just saying that they put time and effort into the design of that frame. and it does show. every zoo i have ever ridden rides like absolute crap, i have ridden 3 of them, and i have ridden 3 coustelliers. tell me thats not a fair comparison.

this horrible debate is so subject to personal opinion i could be %100 wrong and still be right.
When I saw you're spelling mistake I pointed to the screen and said "look, a spelling mistake!"

If Cousts are cracking and having other problems, I l-a-u-g-h. My Zoo! Boa is still going strong and it's a Zoo! !

Sure the Coust can feel better to you than the Pitbull, but that's the geometry isnt it? It's all about preference, as Brett and Morely stated before... I believe..

My posts mean nothing... :)

Elan

11-15-2004, 10:02 PM

When I saw you're spelling mistake I pointed to the screen and said "look, a spelling mistake!"
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. DIAF

Burn

11-15-2004, 10:04 PM

Way2B, you found my joke...

My posts mean nothing...

Burn

BrettM

11-15-2004, 10:08 PM

i misread teh title of this thread as " coustellier vs. xtp2" when it must have clearly read "gay faggot insult thread" stfu brett. lets take things out of context and use them.. like when i mis spelled OH NOES and SEXXOR. nice.

i dont even know what on topic in this forum is anymore. i am finished here. fuck the haters.
Funny because the majority of the insults in the "gay faggot insult thread" are from none other than yourself. I never called you out for spelling anything wrong, all I said was to just let it slide.