Maybe this should be a sticky?

[oicdn]

Specifically:

http://free-du.htnet.hr/trials/faq.html#q2_0

Because of all the "Should I get stock or mod?


But if not just that portion, just post the whole damn thing....

http://free-du.htnet.hr/trials/faq.html

MAYBE some will read it...:rant2:

[trialman1]

thanks ma man.its a great article.

[giventofly]

yeah.....it's a great article if you don't ride mod bikes.

It was like reading a michael moore book. Stating opinions as fact.

"Most riders enjoy it at first, but then they wish for a stock," LIE
"There are very few exceptions to this rule" LIE..every one I know who rides mod, still rides mod

"Some people say mods have no style, no spirit, and no versatility. I agree. It's like swimming with flippers: it's great while you're in the water, but when you get out of the sea, it's clumsy to walk in them." Well, isn't that the POINT of riding a trials bike? to ride TRIALS well on it? Flippers are good for SWIMMING because they make you SWIM fast. They are "SWIM FINS, after all...not WALK FINS. Mod bikes are good for TRIALS because they are built for TRIALS....not dual slalom and downhill.

also, my opinion is that you will learn much faster on a mod, because the geometry is more geared for pure trials. It's easier to go to back wheel, it's easier to develop balance. Stock is very expensive. I've done both....and I sold my stock bike and bought a mod. If I want to go cross country riding, I get out my Cross Country bike.

[oicdn]

Yeah...it was kinda biased....but like anything, it can be thrown out of perspective......but I understand what your saying...and Michael Moore is a douche....

[echoteam13]

i dunno what you're saying. both you and the faq guy say that mods have trials-geared geometry like a stock doesn't. any half decent stock rider's bike has trials geo, and unless you're riding a mountain bike, i think stocks in general have better geo. also this faq is real old school, and somewhat outdated. it was written before the big uci craze (which was a good thing) and is oriented more towards streetish trials-kings style riding.

watchu talkin 'bout, willis? mikee morizzle is hard core.

[DaneBrammage]

I liked reading that FAQ during my first months of riding trials. But like giventofly already pointed out, its a little closed minded and doesnt present the full case very well.
Mods may be easier to learn on and do certain things with-- but what matters is when you (or someone else) pushes the limits. People who push the limits on mod bikes arent taking the easy way out; they're fuckin straining to bust the boundaries of what came before. Thats a great thing whether stock or mod.
-they might have known that by now :down:

[Trialsking]

Yeah the FAQ was rather biased. But I am biased too, toward stock, cuz like my friend said, mod bikes are cheating. But he also said rigid forks are cheating too, so take it with a grain of salt.

[DanBowhers]

If you are going to say that the article is like something by Moore you should also be fair and say its like anything by Fox news...

[mikeschiavone]

fox is great

[giventofly]

[QUOTE=Trialsking]Yeah the FAQ was rather biased. But I am biased too, toward stock, cuz like my friend said, mod bikes are cheating.... QUOTE]

Didn't modified trials bikes exist before stock trials bikes?

[MegamoMidwest]

"Some people say mods have no style, no spirit, and no versatility. I agree. It's like swimming with flippers: it's great while you're in the water, but when you get out of the sea, it's clumsy to walk in them." Well, isn't that the POINT of riding a trials bike? to ride TRIALS well on it? Flippers are good for SWIMMING because they make you SWIM fast. They are "SWIM FINS, after all...not WALK FINS. Mod bikes are good for TRIALS because they are built for TRIALS....not dual slalom and downhill.Actually flippers are called flippers not swim fins.

The point of riding a trials bike is not to suck at every other type of riding.

and the man made an entire article about FAQs for inexperienced riders and all you do is go bash it. its biased because he has opinions. deal with it.

[planetary1]

I thought it was a good read.


It was like reading a michael moore book. Stating opinions as fact.
Dan....I'm surprised...

...but...he doesn't does he, his opinions are just that. Actually he doesn't really state opinions as much as present information that allows you to form an opinion if you want to, or that really just make you aware of certain facts. He makes a clear difference though and nobody can dispute his facts, because they are verifiable and he invites you to check his sources.


Now you have me thinking, I've read Stupid White Men and I've seen Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, and f/911 and where are the opinions? I seriously can't think of any. Maybe I just can't think of any at the moment...:dunno:

[cogmog]

get out and ride!

[cogmog]

f 911.....There is no excuse for Busch to sit for 7 minutes in a fucking kindergarden for publicity while people are fucking dying! Those 7 minutes he could have saved lives,....my cousins life could have been saved! Busch not knowing what to do is not a god damn opinion,......he sat there for 7 minutes and looked like a moron! Anyone who says different also has their head up there own ass!!!! (the head up their own ass part is definetly my opinion!)

[DanBowhers]

Planetary please dont misquote me. I was defending Moore if anything. I didnt say that bit about the article being like his work. While I do think some of his work would be strengthened by recognizing the other side I dont care what he does or says because it presents a view point that the majority of us dont see because of our egregiously conservative and selective media.

And for the record, his films are very bias, all films are to some degree. We only see what he has let us see and we "form opinions" based on clearly only seeing one side of the argument (his) I dont care if thats a good or bad thing, just saying.

[B1105]

His films are bias, but he admits they are opinion. So its all good as long as he isnt stating its a fact.

[Tanner]

How the hell are you going to save lives in New York when you're in Florida? Call the FDNY and NYPD to get to the scene..when they were already there? I dunno, some people need to realize that just because you're president doesn't mean you're not a human who makes mistakes.

[Ed Gildea]

There is no excuse for Busch to sit for 7 minutes in a fucking kindergarden for publicity while people are fucking dying! Those 7 minutes he could have saved lives,....my cousins life could have been saved! Busch not knowing what to do is not a god damn opinion,......he sat there for 7 minutes and looked like a moron! Anyone who says different also has their head up there own ass!!!! (the head up their own ass part is definetly my opinion!)
wtf?! i dont think you could be more rong.

[Little Android Man]

why do you spell it busch?

and i think the daily show sid it best.. "you only get to see his failures". and its like that for anyone, your only going to talk about what he fucked up. he she, whoever.

but about the article...i didnt read it..i think i may have a long time ago, and if i did id idnt caer about it, because i have a mod, and i really like that mod, and im not going to stop riding mod.

[echoteam13]

mods are not cheating. i am currently riding mod, and saving for my stock. mods can do huge sidehops more easily, and bounce around without getting tired as easily,but you can't roll over shit. this is what i hate about mods. i could do more hoppin, but i don't want to, and i dont like the way it looks. the fact o the matter (but half opinion) (maybe more) is that mods are better at hoppin small stuff... but why do that when you can roll it? im not sayin that ya can't do big stuff on a mod, i'm sayin that i can't do big stuff on a mod. wtf am i talin bout... ok im dun.

Micheal Moore hates America!... what a fukkin load of crap.

[Andreas]

yeah echoteam13, i do know what you're talking about. i agree that mods may be more flickable and have their advantages, but that doesn't mean you automatically get better! sure it's easier to sidehop because their so tiny, but there is still a technique you need to learn before you can use the bike to your advantage! different skills for different bikes....

mods do really suck at rolling stuff. i've tried stock bikes on natty, and i can just pedal kick on an upphill, jagged rock. when i went back to it on my mod, my tyre didn't want to budge. it just couldn't roll for shit. same applies to DH slopes and just rocks in general, mods have a much harder time rolling stuff. so while a stock rider can roll his way through 10 rocks, the mod rider needs to take time, strength, and mental focus to hop his or her way through the whole thing!

[planetary1]

Planetary please dont misquote me. I was defending Moore if anything. I didnt say that bit about the article .
oh i know, I didn't mean you, I meant the othr Dan, aka, Given to Fly... ;-)


to everyone saying that Moore only showed Bush's mistakes, well, what the hell has that dumb fuck (W) done that has been a success? One thing, let's hear it...one aspect of our lives that he hasn't made worse, I'd like to know what it could be because to me it seems like he has just come in and wrecked the place....
It's just that all eveyone has ever seen is the propoganda and misinformation of Fox, CNN, etc....now finally we are able to see the retard that he really is and eveyone is going ballistic about it because they have to question why they have been 100% behind a complete fucking moron for the past 4 years. History will remember him as the worst president to sit in the oval office, his 'legacy' is secured.


I think this topic has gone in another direction

get out and ride!
I can't, injured, was doing an up to rail then gap to the back of park bench and something went wrong and I did a 'rib cage plant' on the back of the bench...can't even take deep breath or move w/o extreme pain...I'm out for a while....so I have plenty of time to Dubya hate.

[tomacropod]

I'm so glad that Moore released that film, despite it being biased and one-sided (but of course it will be, he's trying to prove a point, you have to add your own pinch of salt to these things !! In order to be entertaining you have to present strong views, and he won't achieve anything if he's not entertaining) because finally it seems a large proportion of the American public (I know they were there before, but not as vocal as the "rest") are seeing in Bush's foreign policy and blind militarism what, it seems to me, Australians and others have seen for a long time. He's running a country with some very serious domestic and social problems, but he doesn't deem them as "important" as blowing up external risks. Surely the problems festering on your own soil are more of a problem than a bunch of grumblers in the middle east. Of course you have to be vigilant, but perhaps some attempt at reconciliation with those disgruntled groups now elevated to the point of "terrorist" would be more useful than trying to kill them, making them madder.

Most people in Australia know that 95% of snakebites are incurred when someone spies, pursues, and attempts to kill a snake. Leave it alone, and it will leave you alone.

"There's no future in it. They have no future. That's not just good old-fashioned Jew hating talk. It's policy now" - Scherner

I dread that perhaps I exist in a time where good old-fashioned Arab hating talk has been elevated to policy, I certainly see the trickle on effects in Australia and England on the streets and in the airports and train stations, the situation must be magnified many times in the US.

- Joel

[MikeTheBike]

An even more heated debate than politcs: there is no "stock" or "mod," there is only 26" and 20".

Do we really even need a distinction?

[oicdn]

Are you serious? That movie is complete twisted facts. Sure, 7% of the Sauds "own" our economy. But so the fuck what? America still thinks the Middle East owns most of the earths oil, and that's the reason we buy oil from them....when infact the US owns most of the worlds drilled oil supply. And we're using up THIER oil, and THIER refineries...cheaper labor, lower cost...... So who really owns who? They have a 7% share in our stock market...well, hell I could point out that Bill Gates really runs America cause he owns Microsoft, and Microsoft and Windows is in 90-98% of Americas homes AND business' and show some one sided facts and footage.

Micheal Moore could make a movie that would convince half the world that eating cow shit was good for you. And people would start eating it. And he would get an oscar.

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/images/smilies/threadjacked.gif

[planetary1]

Name one that is wrong. I challenge anybody to find one incorrect fact in F/911.
Tell me what he lied about because I'd like to know.

[Cryo-Cube]

i love how the guy who calls Moore a "douch" and the "damn liberals" to fuck of is the same guy who suggested to nuke iraq few months ago


amazing quots by oicdn


I mean seriously, what other options do we have other than a nuclear attack? If you raised thier temp to about 2700 degrees, and eliminate 85% of a race...that's an 85% chance that you killed whoever was in charge. Man is not to play God, but I think God will choose what people to live and what people will die.....
What will it take for people to realize that if WE don't kill these people THEY will kill us through either a WMD i.e. a dirty bomb


WE HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS
Essentially this is WW3. You have the Battleground in Iraq, then Afganistan, then you have the sifting of Alquaida in the Philippines...then you have the attacks of the US. France already surrenders, and Spain is still neutral....umm...that's alot of countries in the world to NOT be a world war to be involved in ONE war....There are other countries....I just can't remember them....


oh no doubt it is...NO DOUBT. But it will rid this world of the people who decide to terrorize others. ZEspecially when those peoples are concentrated in ONE area...


I know nuking is never, or never should be the answer...but when your back is against the wall, you have troops dying, innocent people dieing, other countries you're trying to play police for


But our country IS threatened


*cough*WW2*cough* granted Japan was more organized, but in the last months, were they really? Sending kamikazi's, bringing back Roman empire raming tactics to sacrifice themselves in the MINUTE chance of victory if outnumbered? Brutal, and devastating, but the 2nd bomb ended that war.....and I think just one, would end this one, as wrong as it might be


And I would surely bet, if we launched a nuclear attack against the middle east.....who would retaliate? Who would dare? We could destroy the ENTIRE EARTH with ONE SSBN sub...we have 14....hence the purpose of a boomer "muclear detterance". No country has the firepower that ONE US Ballistic Missile submarine has and that's a FACT


I know the consequences., the nukes are definitly an extreme case. I know not ALL the people in Iraq aren't terrorists......but it's definitly hard to sort out when you have what appear to be civilians, then they shoot weapons at you

this one is gold


Like people on the other forums said...you people obviously DO NOT follow politics and/or the current national status and are part of the blindfolded that pretty much just roll with what happens


Instead, you sit back and watch when a political thread or ANY issue as a matter of fact, comes up and bash the people voicing thier opinion on the matter when you have NO FUCKING CLUE what you're talkin about other than the biased tidbits of info you heard on the news

i love this one


Your not suppose to understand... instead go to college, learn from the top liberals in the market- which will NEVER stand behind there own country, just sit back and critisize the Gov. to death with pages of B.S. (full of answers and 0 solutions)

i love this one even more

The fact that there ARE WMD also leaves this country at a great threat, especially in the hands of those that belive they are doing this for a religous cause
And your telling me Moore twists facts and talks bullshit
Your a joke

[trialsbug]

oh i know, I didn't mean you, I meant the othr Dan, aka, Given to Fly... ;-)


to everyone saying that Moore only showed Bush's mistakes, well, what the hell has that dumb fuck (W) done that has been a success? One thing, let's hear it...one aspect of our lives that he hasn't made worse, I'd like to know what it could be because to me it seems like he has just come in and wrecked the place....
It's just that all eveyone has ever seen is the propoganda and misinformation of Fox, CNN, etc....now finally we are able to see the retard that he really is and eveyone is going ballistic about it because they have to question why they have been 100% behind a complete fucking moron for the past 4 years. History will remember him as the worst president to sit in the oval office, his 'legacy' is secured.


I think this topic has gone in another direction


I can't, injured, was doing an up to rail then gap to the back of park bench and something went wrong and I did a 'rib cage plant' on the back of the bench...can't even take deep breath or move w/o extreme pain...I'm out for a while....so I have plenty of time to Dubya hate.
I think these little guys would have disagreed with you about whether Bush has done any good while in office if they had been allowed to live. Although they look old enough to live, they were killed during a partial birth abortion procedure (There may or may not be pics attached to this message).

I am not trying to push my views on anyone or offend anyone, but in 4 years there have been many good and bad things done by Bush and I think the same could be said about any other person if he/she had been in his position.

Now back to trials. I definitely prefer two classes because I ride two bikes. I ride them very differently and can't pick a favorite. Depending on how a section is set up, one bike may have an advantage over the other and I don't think it would be fair to run 20" against 26" bikes in most cases unless it is a local comp with very few riders.

[oicdn]

Two months ago, Moore posted a statement on his website calling the Iraqi insurgents and terrorists 'minutemen' and expressing implied hope for their victory (http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=10700). In his new movie, Moore tries to make the viewers believe that he expresses sympathy for our troops, and says more troops should be sent there to reinforce them. Which of Moore's two views does he really follow?

Moore claims the Saudi embassy was the only one in DC protected by the US Secret Service. Au contraire. The Secret Service Uniformed Division is tasked (http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/ud.shtml) to protect any embassy in the DC embassy district which asks for or needs its protection.

[oicdn]

**Shit wireless router settings**
Moore portrayed the Bush presidency as a failure before September 11, 2001, and that he could not get any of his legislation through Congress; in fact, Congress passed his $1.3 trillion tax cut (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/06/20010607.html) four months earlier, as well as a plethora of his policy proposals (http://www.boycottliberalism.com/Bush.htm), including support for Faith Based charities.

Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation (http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/presvacation/) 42% of his first months in office, because he also counts weekends (many Presidents have opted for the weekends in Camp David). With weekends counted, the President only spent 13% of his time on 'vacation'.

[DaneBrammage]

My goodness what a discussion.. its like that expression 'I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out'

---the universe, ourselves included (!), is built upon action relationship randomness of infinitely small particles of living energy. I yearn for the day when I exit this shit hole of a monkey house of pretended importances and artificial beliefs we call our modern world. Shouting baboons of logic and reason; crass and cruel playground run by old men in suits. Killing to attain peace.

Nature itself will humble america. Its a lock.

[oicdn]

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/images/smilies/threadjacked.gif

[Cryo-Cube]

**Shit wireless router settings**


Moore claims that President Bush was on vacation (http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/presvacation/) 42% of his first months in office, because he also counts weekends (many Presidents have opted for the weekends in Camp David). With weekends counted, the President only spent 13% of his time on 'vacation'.
He didnt "claim" it, he said "according to" and named the new york post (or washington post or whatever it was)

[oicdn]

Well, lets see, it's pretty amazing how he only emphasizes Bush in that whole slew of Slander he has.

But it's funny, Moore is so terrified by his detractors, that he's hired a team of lawyers. He states "I will sue Bush Supporters who I think may be preparing to slander me." - NY Times

Moore's hypocrisy is obvious. Slate editor Jack Shafer says, "Moore's hysterical, empty threats" to sue critics of his latest schlockumentary show that he "appears to believe in free speech only for himself."

WTF? You can dish it out, make a world wide "documentary" but you can't take it? what a douche....

[Cryo-Cube]

Two months ago, Moore posted a statement on his website calling the Iraqi insurgents and terrorists 'minutemen' and expressing implied hope for their victory (http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=10700). In his new movie, Moore tries to make the viewers believe that he expresses sympathy for our troops, and says more troops should be sent there to reinforce them. Which of Moore's two views does he really follow?
. Your the one twisting facts, Moore wrote The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow — and they will win. Get it, Mr. Bush? First of all. He didnt implie "hope for their victory" he just stated his oppinon they will win. Whre did he say "i hope they win? or Man the Iraqi people should win"??????????

And he is right, Iraqis attacking US soldiers on Iraqi soil arent terrorists. Their govnerment/regime got overthrown by the USA,which invaded Iraq.Right now Iraq is very unstable.
If China would invade USA and a civilian/ ex-soldier would go out on the street fighting them would you call him a terrorist?

[oicdn]

Where did I post "I hope they win?" But see, what is the point of the man in the street trying to fight off the China man if he is trying to LIBERATE AND HELP the economy? It's called stupid Iraqi....err, let me be politically correct, STUPID PERSON. Why are you going to bit the hand that feeds you?

I don't know about you, but if I'm a soldier, and somebody points a gun at me, I'm going to shoot. Why is it that everybody blows that out of proportion when a soldier kills a civilian when the civilian was trying to shoot the soldier? Civilian casualty? Who gives a damn, THEY just tried to kill you...you not gonna shoot them cause they're a civilian? BS on that one.... Moore depict the war over there as people did the Military in Vietnam...baby killers, etc....that's utter crap....

[Cryo-Cube]

arghhhhh


But see, what is the point of the man in the street trying to fight off the China man if he is trying to LIBERATE AND HELP the economy? It's called stupid Iraqi....err, let me be politically correct, STUPID PERSON. Why are you going to bit the hand that feeds you? Yeah right the stupid Irai..... if you were a Iraqi you wouldnt be "yay look usa, nice".
You would more think like "hmmm americans, they fucked us up in gulf war 1991 then put 12 years of heavy sanctions& embargos on my country which led to poverty and starvation and now they are back(with guns and smartbombs) to "free us" hahahaha, hand me a AK-47 please."



I don't know about you, but if I'm a soldier, and somebody points a gun at me, I'm going to shoot. Why is it that everybody blows that out of proportion when a soldier kills a civilian when the civilian was trying to shoot the soldier? Civilian casualty? Who gives a damn, THEY just tried to kill you... You are right, a soldier has every right to defend himself from any attacker, thats not the point. The point was YOU and other conservatives(or whatever you are) calling them terrorists. Thats not true.


Moore depict the war over there as people did the Military in Vietnam...baby killers, etc....that's utter crap.... Where the fuck did he say anything bad or dishonorable about the us troops in f/911 ?
In f/911 you see young soldiers laughing at dead Iraqis, or soldiers saying " its fun to shoot with my favorite music n headphones" Then Moore said "when a president send otherwise good kids to war based on a lie, this is what you get"
As you see, he didnt blame the soldiers, he blames the war itself and the president who is responsible for the war.

[Elan]

My goodness what a discussion.. its like that expression 'I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out'

---the universe, ourselves included (!), is built upon action relationship randomness of infinitely small particles of living energy. I yearn for the day when I exit this shit hole of a monkey house of pretended importances and artificial beliefs we call our modern world. Shouting baboons of logic and reason; crass and cruel playground run by old men in suits. Killing to attain peace.

Nature itself will humble america. Its a lock.
why dont you kill yourself then? are are you jsut yearning for attention, because you are "different" ?

[oicdn]

I dunno if you knew this or not, but that happens in EVERY WAR. A couple friends of mine and my sisters friends all tell the same shit from every war. They take the cigarettes off dead bodies, laugh at the dead people who tried to kill them, as well do minor things like that to keep thier heads busy. Shit, have you SEEN out there? When my sis' friend struck a deal with Pepsi for them to have rationed Pepsi they were stoked as shit....stoked for Pepsi....THAT'S the kind of environment and lifestyle they're in. So him showing that scenario was what, some ONE SIDED FOOTAGE. Why didn't he show thier living conditions? Or how about thier sleep rotations, or watch cycles? Yeah...definitly some ONE SIDED footage...

[oicdn]

And I do see your point about the Gulf war and the civilians....I just don't understand why it so emphasized on the civilian aspects. We're over there to look for TERRORISTS, parts of the remaining Regime and Al Qeada, but people STILL think we're over there attacking civilians. And like I said above, I don't care who it is, if a "civilian" is pointing a gun or shooting, you shoot back. Just don't get all bent out of shape that a soldier killed an Iraqi that tried to kill him first.

We're not over there pillaging and raping, but that's what news media and Moore makes it out to be when you show soldiers over a civilian casualty. And obviously, it's a VAST MAJORITY of the Iraqi people over there that are "rebelling".....

[planetary1]

Oicdn, you are one misinformed dude, but like many other Americans I'm not going to blame you because you are being mislead. I know that it is hard to cut through all of the silly news on every channel these days and it is hard to get at the truth. I'm also not going to get into opinions here but let's go back to the facts...this is fun.....

ah, I see you get your news from boycottliberalism.com LOL, now that has to be an unbiased source LOL!!!! You should't even bother reading a site like that..waste of time if you are interested in the truth. On the same token I would never read boycottconservatives.com if such a site existed, it would be totally left biased.


1. OK, I believe someone else already set you straight on the Minute men thing so I'll leave that....

2. Moor didn't say that the Saudi Embassy was the only embassy being protected by the secret service. He just said that it was being protected by the secret service. He wasn't even going to make a big deal about it but they walked up to him. I live in Berlin at the moment, German police guard the US embassy, the Chinese embassy, and all the others so I think this is something fairly normal...

3. You mentioned he wasn't having so many problems during his first 8 months, well...




In a poll conducted September 5 to September 9, 2001, Investor’s Business Daily and the Christian Science Monitor showed President Bush’s approval rating at 45%, down from 52% in May ( Investor’s Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor Poll, conducted by TIPP, 9/5 to 9/9, 2001). Zogby’s polling had Bush at 47% in late July 2001, down from 57% in February (Zogby, 7/26 to 7/29, 2001).


In June 2001, a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll showed President Bush's approval rating at 50 percent, which was the lowest presidential approval rating in five years. Richard L. Berke, “G.O.P. Defends Bush in Face of Dip in Poll Ratings,” The New York Times, June 29 2001


On July 26, 2001, in an article entitled “Bush Lacks the Ability To Force Action on Hill,” Dana Milbank of the Washington Post wrote, “ It may be premature to conclude that Bush has lost control of his agenda, but lawmakers and strategists in both parties said that Bush's next year is much more likely to look like the fractious month of July than like the orderly march toward Bush's tax cut this spring.… The troubles began, of course, with Vermont Sen. James M. Jeffords' departure from the GOP, giving control of the Senate to the Democrats. But the problems are nearly as bad in the House, where moderates who supported Bush's tax cut are proving recalcitrant on other issues. They rebelled against GOP leaders on campaign finance reform and held up Bush's "faith-based" legislation over concerns about discrimination. Next week, they're likely to oppose Bush's proposal to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.”
California energy crisis also took a toll on Bush’s approval ratings. Due to rolling blackouts and rising utility bills Bush’s ratings took a toll among Californians. The poll showed that almost as many Californians disapproved of the President’s job as approved of it with an approve/disapprove of 42/40. “Calif. Governor Says He'll Sue to Force Government Action,” The Houston Chronicle, May 30, 2001.

.....and um...you mentioned support for faith based charities as a success?

Ever heard of separation of church and state? If you want to give support to the Christian fund for sick kids or whatever then you also have to give money to the Islamic Front for the Destruction of the West, and for that matter to the Worshipers of the Green toad Fairy...OK, these are made up examples but you can't fund 'em all...

4. vacation time::::


“News coverage has pointedly stressed that W.'s month-long stay at his ranch in Crawford is the longest presidential vacation in 32 years. Washington Post supercomputers calculated that if you add up all his weekends at Camp David, layovers at Kennebunkport and assorted to-ing and fro-ing, W. will have spent 42 percent of his presidency ‘at vacation spots or en route.’” Charles Krauthammer, “A Vacation Bush Deserves,” The Washington Post, August 10, 2001.


As of April 2004, President Bush had made 33 trips to Crawford during his presidency, bringing his total to more than 230 days at the ranch in just over three years. “Add his 78 trips to Camp David and five to his family’s compound at Kennebunkport, Maine, and Bush has spent all or part of 500 days – or about 40 percent of his presidency – at one of these his three retreats.” “Bush Retreats to a Favorite Getaway: Crawford ranch,” Houston Chronicle, April 11, 2004.

and to the guy with the gross pics....please, the abortion pics were uncalled for if they were in fact real. We are talking about facts here and abortion, at least for the moment, is a matter of choice and opinion until the law states otherwise. And we don't know the circumstances behind those abortions or if they were in fact abortions at all, maybe the mother died for example, maybe the fetuses died and had to be removed...those pictures, without accompanying verifiable data are irrelevant and well, just nasty, but they look familiar.....

So who is repsonsible for this then?

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/STILL-Mantle.jpg

[Cryo-Cube]

I dunno if you knew this or not, but that happens in EVERY WAR. A couple friends of mine and my sisters friends all tell the same shit from every war. They take the cigarettes off dead bodies, laugh at the dead people who tried to kill them, as well do minor things like that to keep thier heads busy. Shit, have you SEEN out there? When my sis' friend struck a deal with Pepsi for them to have rationed Pepsi they were stoked as shit....stoked for Pepsi....THAT'S the kind of environment and lifestyle they're in. So him showing that scenario was what, some ONE SIDED FOOTAGE. Why didn't he show thier living conditions? Or how about thier sleep rotations, or watch cycles? Yeah...definitly some ONE SIDED footage... Wow you are amazing
1. Where the hell did anybody (including Moore) say shit like that only happend in this war? Of course it happens in every war, just like raping n stuff . Moore only showed what war does with people. Showing the bad side of war is one sided? no wait dont answer, read NR 2

2. Did you actually see the fucking movie? Right after he shows the soldiers making fun of the dead he also shows soldiers:
a, acting normal, beeing concerned with the whole situation
b, soldiers even saying " we are here to help them, but they want us to leave"
c, a soldier saying that its hard to deal with all this violence n stuff, seeing dead IRAQIS making him sad

So how in the hell could this be "one sided footage" as you put it.


I dont know whats even going on in your mind. You seem to pick a scene/statement out of the movie and go like " boah look he shows soldiers bahaving like idiots, thats one sided liberal crap"
Somehow your brain forgets all the scene where he also shows the soldiers in a good light.

And spare me the " we are searching for Terrorists and Al Qeada over there"
How many Terrorists did they found? How many Al Qeada Terrorits?
How many liked to (lol) 9/11?
And when i mean linked, i mean really linked not this "the friend of some iraqi kid has a oncle who has a brother whos father knew the grandmother of one of the Terrorits who miiight knew something"

Thats like reading a decent Novel and after spotting the word dick go crazy " THIS IZ A DIRTY PORN BOOK, SHAME ON THE AUTHOR , THIS SHOULD B E ILLEGAL"

Do me a favor and read everything you posted on this Thread again and tell me honestly that you didnt just pick stuff out of context(like the novel example i wrote) and started babeling "THIS IS ONE SIDED" bullshit.... please

[Matt]

What the fuck?

I don't understand why you guys are discussing this in the trials forum. Carry it over to OT if you wish to continue.

:rant2: :mad: