View Full Version : disc on the front and back
evileye
04-04-2004, 08:14 AM
hi ive decided to get a disc for the back aswell as the front coz im sick of grinding my rim. And going through 20 brake blockes in a month. Anybody got any reviews on any?
I have a orange zero
Allmjm
04-04-2004, 08:32 AM
I have a orange zero
There are probably 2 trials frames that could be used with disc brakes. Brisa and Megamo. You will probably break your frame if you decide to run a rear disc. Its not worth it.
Martin
The orange zero actually has a good reputation as being a frame that can withstand the forces of a rear disc brake. I'll bet you can get 4-8 months out of it. As for rear brakes to recommend, I can only say this based on others reviews, but I heard avid mechanicals make a good rear brake.
Matt
DanBowhers
04-04-2004, 02:08 PM
I would say avid mechanicals. The only problem I heard was BrettM was hitting his foot on the adjuster dial and thus furthering the gap between brake pads and rotor. I am getting dual avids for my street bike, they feel really nice for trials too, I just dont have a frame that would work well with a rear disc...
BrettM
04-04-2004, 02:13 PM
I only hit my foot on them because of my custom tab. It sits a lot lower than it would on any other frame. I ran them for a month on the PX Zebdi before I snapped the frame because of them and never had a prob hitting my foot. If you do hit your foot just duct tape the knob so it can't move. I think I'm gonna design a shady guard for my next frame here.
If you are gonna do it be well aware that you will break that frame because of it. Depending on skill level and how you ride they don't take long.
avid mechs are a good brake. aye.
ascentrek
04-04-2004, 04:33 PM
Kevin raved on the Juicy as well. Something else to consider
i have ridden a st of juicy's for like 30 minutes one day on a XC bike.... THE best brake ever invented... it WILL break your frame and your wallet though..but it is the tops. avid mechs are cheaper and work damn well.
BrettM
04-04-2004, 08:45 PM
My Juicy leaked all over the fuckin place on the rear. Only took one 4 hour ride too. The front one not as bad but still the most expensive pile of shit. If anyone wants one I'm sellin em.
Bloodhound
04-04-2004, 10:13 PM
My Juicy leaked all over the fuckin place on the rear. Only took one 4 hour ride too. The front one not as bad but still the most expensive pile of shit. If anyone wants one I'm sellin em.
Thats exactly why I want to stay away from hydrolics, inconsistant results
DangerousDave
04-04-2004, 11:33 PM
i run dual avid mechs on my megamo. the rear is by far the best brake out there. I'll ride someones rear vbrake or magura setup who i used to think had good brakes but now they are all terrible compared to my disc.
avid mech is your cheapest, more reliable brake. i haven't tried any other rear disc so i wont tell you its stronger than another disc brake but its stronger than everyones rim brake setup i've tried lately...
rider
04-05-2004, 01:51 AM
I use the Hope C2, currently at the rear. Its a closed system, allowing you to fine tune pad clearance with an adjuster dial. Works great!!! Both power and modulation
Bloodhound
04-05-2004, 02:48 AM
I never got the diff between an 'open' and 'closed' system...?
Dont buy a hayes, terrible stopping power! I have tried MANY.
I never got the diff between an 'open' and 'closed' system...?
Dont buy a hayes, terrible stopping power! I have tried MANY.
An open system has a reservoir from which is draws its fluid, thus having an open end (this is the little box you generally see on the lever (though its hidden on the Hayes)). A closed system doesn't have this reservoir, you just fill the lines as full of fluid as possible and then you can often adjust how close (in relation to the disc or rim) the pads sit with something the manufacturer added to the brake. On the HS33, this is an adjustment knob called the TPA (throttle pad adjuster I think).
Hopefully this makes sense.
Matt
hi my name is ben, i live in hervey bay queensland australia.
I have a rear disk brake on the back of my 2003 x-lite 20" mod, and it works something fierce! i run a hope mini 2 on the rear and a maggi louise on the front. NOT i repeat NOT one problem has happened to the frame AT ALL! the only prob i have had is the pads dont stick to the disk like i want them, so i put a coke bottle lid full of soft drink (of any kind) and slowly spin the wheel and drip it onto the pads and on the disk. then go for a ride and hold the leaver so it causes friction on the rotor and heats it up and drys the soft drink out and sticks like shit to a blanket, i mean it, the pads wont let go till u do!
thats all i got to say,
1 more thing dont dis any thing till it has been done- therfore MONTY 20" 2003 (DONE BY JON WEAVING AT GRIPSPORT, IN AUSTRALIA) can support a rear disk mount! http://www.gripsport.com.au/ - the web site of jon weaving who did my frame!
dont be scared to ask him about the mount welding or get a quote.
HE DEALS ALL OVER THE WORLD
E-mail me for pics cause i cant figure out how to put pics on this site(new here)
Ben Shaw
BrettM
04-05-2004, 07:53 AM
NOT i repeat NOT one problem has happened to the frame AT ALL! the only prob i have had is
You sure went to a lot of trouble to try to convince everyone you haven't had a single problem with a hydraulic brake. Funny you start your very next sentence with the words "the only problem I have had is..." The same damn problem everyone has with hydro disks. The reason they aren't grabbing is because they are leaking. I've run full sets of Louise, Marta, Avid Cable, and Avid Juicies front and rear so far on 4 different frames. I've seen it all by this point.
Your frame will break dude. It won't take long. Welding aluminum frames is the sketchiest thing ever. Especially when adding something that was never there. I don't think montys are known for being the strongest frames to begin with. Prepare to add another problem to to your setup that has never had one problem.
rider
04-05-2004, 09:01 AM
, so i put a coke bottle lid full of soft drink (of any kind) and slowly spin the wheel and drip it onto the pads and on the disk.
You did WHAT to a disc brake????????????????
Bloodhound
04-05-2004, 04:11 PM
I never got the diff between an 'open' and 'closed' system...?
Dont buy a hayes, terrible stopping power! I have tried MANY.
An open system has a reservoir from which is draws its fluid, thus having an open end (this is the little box you generally see on the lever (though its hidden on the Hayes)). A closed system doesn't have this reservoir, you just fill the lines as full of fluid as possible and then you can often adjust how close (in relation to the disc or rim) the pads sit with something the manufacturer added to the brake. On the HS33, this is an adjustment knob called the TPA (throttle pad adjuster I think).
Hopefully this makes sense.
Matt
yes that makes total sence. I thought I understood the basics of hydromechanics but oviously not... how does it make a difference if there is a reservoir or not? If the liquid cant compress, it shouldnt matter if you got a 5 litter reservoir, the pressure is just moved across. I understand what the TPA knob is and how it works, but I'm quite confused on the res thing.
Well, the reservoir will allow for auto adjusting pads, with a closed system, how far in or out you screw the TPA will dictate where the pads sit. With an open system, you'll keep pumping fluid in from the reservoir until the pads hit the disc.
brettM said "your frame is gonner break dude"
DUDE any bike/frame that u purchase from the factory(trials spacific) IS eventually gonner break!
My bike has run for 4 months and i don't ride sofly and im not a light fella.
& When i was convincing you that the frame hasnt had a single problem, i didnt say that the breaks where perfect but i mensioned that the frame is perfect.
RIDER[/b]- putting coke on the rotor doesnt fuck any-thing, if it does n e thing its cleanig it when u rub it off with alot of water.
well yeh n e more shitty little coments yas want to pick at my bike go ahead :joshers:
Ben :cool:
BrettM
04-08-2004, 07:51 AM
brettM said "your frame is gonner break dude"
DUDE any bike/frame that u purchase from the factory(trials spacific) IS eventually gonner break!
My bike has run for 4 months and i don't ride sofly and im not a light fella.
& When i was convincing you that the frame hasnt had a single problem, i didnt say that the breaks where perfect but i mensioned that the frame is perfect.
RIDER[/b]- putting coke on the rotor doesnt fuck any-thing, if it does n e thing its cleanig it when u rub it off with alot of water.
well yeh n e more shitty little coments yas want to pick at my bike go ahead :joshers:
Ben :cool:
You frame will break from using a rear disk. If I was on it, it wouldn't last me a month. It's got nothin to do with how soft you ride or how much you weigh as it does what style you ride.
I'm sure coke is a great idea for the seals as well. That might be a fun warranty.
smudge
04-08-2004, 09:36 AM
yes that makes total sence. I thought I understood the basics of hydromechanics but oviously not... how does it make a difference if there is a reservoir or not? If the liquid cant compress, it shouldnt matter if you got a 5 litter reservoir, the pressure is just moved across. I understand what the TPA knob is and how it works, but I'm quite confused on the res thing.
Matt touched on this but I'll try to explain more fully.
In a closed system like the HS-33 or Hope C2, both ends of the systems are "closed" and an expansion reservoir isn't in place. The plus is that you can easily control the distance between your pad and braking surface usually by adjusting the position of the master piston. The down side to this is that as your fluid heats up, it's volume rises and you face the possibility of your system locking up as your pads come in constant contact with the braking surface. You can, in most cases, compensate for this by backing off an adjuster and letting more fluid up toward the master piston.
In an open system, such as the Hope Enduro, Hayes and Hope Mini, there is a reservoir which allows the system to compensate for volume differences in the fluid. ONLY IF YOUR LEVER IS OPEN as the fluid heats up, it can fill more of the reservoir to compensate for the added volume. But, if you're on a long downhill and are constantly dragging your brakes, you effectively have a closed system. When the lever is engaged, the master piston covers up the bleed hole that goes from the line, to the reservoir. It's still possible to overheat and boil your fluid unless you release the brakes momentarily to allow for the fluid expansion. Closed systems rely on properly designed seals at the caliper for slave piston retraction. These seals are usually square in profile and flex to allow the slave pistons to reach the rim. As your pads wear, the seals allow the pistons to slide closer to the rotor as well, and then retract back to their resting position.
anyone who has changed the pads on their car should know that you usually have to use a tool of sorts to push the pistons back into the caliper. You're pusing them past the friction point of the seals and sliding them back to their original starting position so they can re-align themselves when you press the pedal again.
Triple Eight
04-08-2004, 11:12 AM
A buddy of mine currently runs a Magura Louise on the rear of his '02 Brisa B26D. He has had problems with the brake leaking, but it's an older version of that brake. Bike has been running for a year with no issues thus far with the frame. Did however snap the axle on his King ISO rear hub. Actually, I did that.
A tip for getting sticky brakes that he uses and it seems to work pretty damn well: take the pads out and bake them in an oven for about 20 mins. When done baking, dip them in a pot of cold water. All the nasty dirt crap will sizzle right off, and they'll grip pretty damn well, retaining the modulation discs are famous for.
Hope this helps.
BrettM
04-08-2004, 06:15 PM
A buddy of mine currently runs a Magura Louise on the rear of his '02 Brisa B26D. He has had problems with the brake leaking, but it's an older version of that brake. Bike has been running for a year with no issues thus far with the frame. Did however snap the axle on his King ISO rear hub. Actually, I did that.
A tip for getting sticky brakes that he uses and it seems to work pretty damn well: take the pads out and bake them in an oven for about 20 mins. When done baking, dip them in a pot of cold water. All the nasty dirt crap will sizzle right off, and they'll grip pretty damn well, retaining the modulation discs are famous for.
Hope this helps.
The Brisa is a great bike to run a rear disk on.
Be careful with the oven deal. I've never heard bad things with magura pads, but some pads when they heat up the glue loosens and the pad falls off the backing. You don't want that.
Triple Eight
04-08-2004, 10:24 PM
Be careful with the oven deal. I've never heard bad things with magura pads, but some pads when they heat up the glue loosens and the pad falls off the backing. You don't want that.
good call thanks, I hadn't heard of that. he's not running stock magura pads, but I honestly don't remember the brand. I first heard the idea suggested with kool-stops, but haven't had a chance to try them out. anyone else have any experience on baking pads?
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