Koxx is fuckin worse than zoo!!!!!!!

[DangerousDave]

koxx uses a one piece machined bb and chainstay yoke that they stole from the Megamo Equip!!! stupid fucking losers. they are such fucking wankers.

[mikeschiavone]

dude, you said wanker!!!!

[DangerousDave]

ahaha just playin. i just noticed the bb/yoke was a one piece on my equip today. just thought i'd post this becauses its another example of copying and it seems to upset everyone.

Myself? I don't fuckin care.

take the low standover design of the cous, put it with the rear disc mount and bb/yoke design of a megamo with all sorts of other fancy cool things.
if its copying who cares cuz its another bike for ppl to ride...

[hydroboy]

echo also stole the little tab on the drive side, as in pic below of megamo. the story gos when deng saw craig pearces megamo he "suddenly had a new idea for a little gusset"

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn/full-big.jpg


seems megamo had a few good ideas worth copyign. They are the strangest bike to ride though, do you run the stock bars, this diagram is to scale of 1:1 of the bars \_/ thats how wide they are.

[vince]

Good topic Dave. Koxx is the biggest bunch of copiers. The company was built around copying the likes of Megamo and Monty. I think that little tab on between the rear triangle is so the frame will flex to a certain point, but not break. I can't wait to try your Megamo...but not a fan of the discs. Just buy a bike, who gives a shit about copies.

[aki]

Just buy a bike, who gives a shit about copies.

Exactly............. :werd:

[Elan]

so, how is koxx worse than zoo? they copied ONE part of a frame, instead of a complete frame. if yo uask me, they are totally different things. koxx copied a "good idea" for "pregression", where as zoo blatantly just got a picture and copied hte frame design in an attempt to use coustellier's design as a marketing scheme... you are gay again

[DangerousDave]

dammit elan. i'm not serious about koxx being worse than zoo. i'm just jokin around by pointing out all the theft of ideas in the trials industry.
again i could care less. like if by stealing megamos bb idea, koxx has made their own bikes better then its all good. its like progression in riding. someone copies another persons move and then becomes better with it. same thing with the bikes and parts.

[DangerousDave]

hydro:

yea i run the stock bars. i don't mind the bars actually. i think i have newer megamo bars or somethin though. because the meg bars that i got with my radical were fucking narrow and felt terrible. but the ones on my equip seem to feel pretty good. i really like how it feels though.
but i must say my old megamo expert frame with vmounts where i had an orange fork and brisa bar and stem did feel better..

[warpig]

I've got a legit gripe about Koxx. Nothing major but I found it amusing. Did you know that the Try-All FFW cranks and Try-All/VP pedals don't fit together right out of the box? The inboard portion of the cage hangs up on the crank arm. You have to bend or grind about 1/8"-1/4" off the cages to get them to clear and spin all the way around. Or hammer them down in the parking lot like we had to, flattening out the outter part of the cage in the process as well......Ooops. Nothing major as I know Try-All pedals aren't made by Koxx but it looks funny when 2 parts dont mate up right and they're both sportin' a Try-All logo.

[Coramoor]

Haha.. Koxx Is no better than ZOO! But no worse either. The "koxx" pedal is just as bad as the zoo! vs coust. thing. It's just not as serious as it's only a pedal. And they sell it for more money. That's what it's all about. Money. The koxx forxx thing is made by a company named aprebic. Their handlebars are made by some brand-x company, Same goes with their stem, cranks. There may come a time when almost all trials companies makes bikes with a similar design to the coust.(If it is a good design they WILL). I mean. Even the standard Double triangle design off the koxx and echo and all others began somewhere. It's so unoriginal it's not even funny. Of course it's been copied so many times people don't care anymore. I'm so sick of this discussion. And if you're some dumbass elitist who misses out on a good bike because off some lame principle then it's your loss. Fuck if everyone thought like that counter-strike would never have existed because it's basically a copy of wolfenstein 3D. This is how progress is made. Take someone elses design and improve on it(I'm not saying zoo! has improved the design of the coust. More like made a cheaper different alternative and I have no doubt the coust is a better frame). If everyone started from ground zero we would get nowhere.

P.S. This is the last time I'll ever reply too a topic like this....(I'm sure you're all happy for that eh?)

And a little disclaimer. I am not saying that the the pitbull is better than the koxx frames. But it is an alternative. I'm a firm believer that all frames have their strengths and weaknesses and which one is right is different from person to person(unless they have a completely fucked up geometry that is).

[Andreas]

ZOO is fucking shit, everybody knows that. Koxx is good, everybody knows that. why are you guys arguing? ZOO blatantly copied Coust, no arguing there.






dude you guys, check it: every bike company is copying the guy who invented a bike cuz everybody is using a headtube!!!!!
some things are just normal to copy (like a gusset in the rear triangle), but to copy a new idea, and then claim they are not copying (when they even spray paint their wheels to be black, AND copy the try all bars geo.) it's just not cool. in fact its fucking gay

[ascentrek]

I don't know that its copying... but there are bike part manufacturers that make 'generic' frame parts that you can weld together. Perhaps Megamo is selling some patents to other bike mfgrs... or parts. They do this in the industry all the time.

[afrobot]

Zoo,a crap company ,ripped off a great company.Koxx ,a great company, ripped off megamo a debatably crap company.

[pav]

yeh i will 2nd that megamo are crap, i really dont like them

it is pretty tight wat zoo did, i would burn my zoo any day for a coust but i couldnt afford it, and still cant and there are still none in the country and that would have been like 2 months of no riding in which i would have oficialy died and it would be my ghost posting now

pav

[oicdn]

yeh i will 2nd that megamo are crap, i really dont like them

Not really speaking from experiance, but speaking based on Statistic or preference(I guess you could call it that). But it seems the ONLY reason people don't dig the Megamo's are the internal headsets(most people are still confused between internal and integrated, LOL!), and it's not a LONG bike. And the fact thier pricey/hard to get for"the performance" makes it even more so not as "feasible". But, how Many Megamo's have actually failed? Ovalized headtubes? How many? Gimme a break, I can show you a THOUSAND ovalized headtubes with Kings even on standard headsets, but the fact that it's not a "traditional" headset, it's held to a different standard? That's a pretty weak sauce arguement.

All the people who've owned Megamo's liked them. And if they went to a longer bike, ANY bike they go back to that shorter feels like poo to an extent. Also, when people "try out" somebody elses bike, it's not thier bike, of course they'll feel awkward on it, cause it's not "thier spec" or whatever.

It's like when Andrew swapped frames(I know, I always seem to use this instance). His XTP at first thought was gonna kill him, same for his Maxxis tire. He grew accustomed to it and now LOVES his XTP....never grew to liking his tire, but still the fact at first it felt like "poo" to him was because of accustomation.

People just dis because of the fact they didn't like it for that 20 second ride. Personally? I don't really care. Megamo or Koxx.....doesn't matter. Both bikes are great bikes, but because the geo isn't "for your style" don't dis...that's just dumb....

[hydroboy]

pav have you ever riden a megamo?

they have ultra high bottom braket and ultra low bars which make it feel realy strange. the dual disk works great though.

[afrobot]

Plum Dum yum yum!! Like internal/integrated h-sets.Both crap.Go to The king web site and read all the tekky shit about both....It's ok you have one, and I'm sure it rocks for you.After you progress you will go for something else.

It's ok Otkdyn we still love you :greddy:

[pav]

i didnt know about internal headet

i just think megamos generally look pretty gay

[hydroboy]

if they look gay i suppose they are shit for sure.

[kamil]

:werd: <-- to what that skim guy said.



a bike needs to be setup for you.. other wise it feels like shit... it can be the exact same ride as your own just setup diff and it can feel terrible.

[oicdn]

Plum Dum yum yum!! Like internal/integrated h-sets.Both crap.Go to The king web site and read all the tekky shit about both....It's ok you have one, and I'm sure it rocks for you.After you progress you will go for something else.

It's ok Otkdyn we still love you :greddy:

Read...they also say that the only downside is trashed cups....well umm...maybe if you're riding downhill or EXTREMELY hack-ish. And if it's "trash" I don't think King would yet, offer a headset to "compete" with a Zero Stack with the same warranty as thier other headsets. Why would they blatently call something ghey or trash, and yet, offer a product? Would that mean thier design too is trash? I don't think King markets ANYTHING trash. So I don't think they think Integrated is trash...it's just a non-standardized alternative. pretty much an alternative for those that want a different headset than a Zero Stack. Although, it's probably the same headset, as King has to get copyrights probably from Cane Creek for this headset too, LOL!


An "Internal" headset (also known as "semi-integrated", for maximum confusion) is yet another headset type that places the bearings within the head tube (rather than outside the head tube, like a conventional headset does). The key difference between an integrated and internal is THE BEARINGS DO NOT TOUCH THE FRAME with an internal headset. They are contained either by a cup or an aluminum or plastic shim assembly which is pressed into the headtube.

One example is the Zero-Stack™ headset. It is an "internal" headset that uses the exact same bearings as an integrated headset. The important difference is that in a Zero-Stack™ headset, a cup is first pressed into the frame, then the bearing is placed in the cup. The bearing still floats around in the cup, and it will eventually trash the cup. This is absolutely superior to an integrated headset because you can replace the cup. The frame will never be damaged by the bearing. Another example is the Columbus-type internal headset. It actually presses a bearing directly into the bike frame, similar to our Perdido headset.

Just like you can't convert an integrated headset frame to use a conventional headset. Internal or "semi-integrated" headsets offer basically no structural advantage over the conventional headset. Sure they may be radially stronger, but this isn't really a weakness of the conventional design.

If you think that the conventional headset is just too ugly and you can't bear to look at it, internal headsets are for you. That is the benefit. Heavier frame and fork, no real structural benefit to the assembly. Looks different though. And yes, this judgment includes our own Perdido headset.

So the headset arguement...again...is weak sauce.

As for a Megamo...eh. Maybe. I like variety, and there's no doubt I'll be trying other things as I get better....but I won't knock it unless there's really a valid reason other than speculation or hear-say....

[sebLG]

i didnt know about internal headet

i just think megamos generally look pretty gay

hmm, they dont look gay, they look tops, they ride like poopies is all. so i guess they must be gay. megamo have some really really good idea's like their aluminium discs and that, and their disc mount, but they dont seem to have a good enough idea about the "in style" geometry.

[oicdn]

but they dont seem to have a good enough idea about the "in style" geometry.

Well...that depends on who you talk to/demographics...... :bigthumb:

[afrobot]

But to really sum it up....I have no fucking idea why I need a hunded dollar head set for a sport that could probably use a 10 POS.

[Coramoor]

While you don't need downhill style headsets. A 10$ pos won't last you very long. At least it didn't last me very long.

[hydroboy]

yeah $10 will last forever. as long as you install it with the bearings the right way.

[Elan]

i like macarroni better

[DangerousDave]

See the whole reason I posted this topic was to piss people off. to show how hipocritical ppl are. how one company can copy another but becuase they are "in" at the moment its a big deal. And apparently it worked. Because so few ppl now a days seem to ride just to ride. its all about the fads and going with the crowd. andy t will of course disagree with me but its already been debated.

copying brings progression. maybe andy t wouldn't like his xtp if it had to use some fucked up bb/yoke and ended up being shit because they didn't copy megamo. it doesn't fucking matter. if the pitbull geometry suits someone better than the cous geometry then thats what its all about.

how are megamos shit? they outlasted all the other bikes i've had.
You don't see any welfare welds on my bike like the koxx or the echo/zoos. the strongest rear disc mount on any trials bike. lots of innovations like the one piece machined bb/yoke. etc etc.
My bike is fuckin dope. and although this is gonna sound really arrogant, but for all the ppl who say you can only get to a certain level on a shorter bike, just watch me ride and then try to tell me that

I hate how long bikes ride. but that doesn't mean their shit. if i rode kevins desalvo or andys xtp i'd prolly hate them both. but i know they are still amazing bikes.

[WhiteRavenKS]

while we may not agree on how long/short bikes feel... dave- we agree that people are generally pretty stupid. :bigthumb:

[DangerousDave]

And in the end, isn't that all that really matters kevin?

[WhiteRavenKS]

And in the end, isn't that all that really matters kevin?
perhaps.... perhaps indeed

[stocktrials]

good topic dave.. especially the post before your last.. made sense. its nice to see someone has a brain :bigthumb:

the coustellier bros used to ride megamos.. oh wait that was before they were as big as they are now!! pfft megamos suck now though, they're gay and shit.. hey aren't they a copy of some other frame? waaah boo hoo i'm going to join the majority and hate on them!!

I tend not to say much on this, riding a pitbull and all. why, I should be stoned to death or thrown into a insanely hot volcano or fed to a pack of hungry snakes or whatever the fuck you fancy.. but the fact of the matter is a lot of you need to just lighten up!

Dave was just stirring shit, stop stressin



that is all.

[warpig]

Oops, wrong spot..........ignore me/this

[oicdn]

That's the ZS6....which I have no fuckin clue about what's different than a "regular" Zero Stack. The Zero Stack or Zero Stack 2 from most shops is $30-45...about the average cost or slightly cheaperthan a headset with sealed cartridge bearings. The only DISADVANTAGE is that you're pretty much STUCK with a Zero Stack. You have no variety....

King says the only issue with an integrated is you can trash the cups, but I'm thinkin they mean in EXTREME situations, like a DC on a DH bike. Maybe then ya know, with all that added stress, probably it's likely. But the fact that people don't tighten it up enough probably adds to the fact that it makes play later on down the road...again, deterring from the internal....

I agree, if the option were available, I think I probably WOULD go the normal headset route even though there's no proven advantage.....somply because they're readily available, and you have variety.

As far as "only going so far on it". LOL, I was gonna say "look at Dave and tell me you can only go so far before you "outperform" it" but Dave beat me to it... Megamo is like any other bike frame out there, they all come down to preference and what you want. "The Cous Bros used to ride them...before they got big"...LOL, weak sauce.....

[vince]

If they were good enough for the Cousts at any point in their career they're good enough for anyone on this board. I bet Dave could outride any long bike post whore on this forum, on a lowly megamo. I too hate the long bikes, I prefer something with a WB of about 1040ish. I'm sure a lot of people buy the fad frames and hate them, as they find them too long. There is still a market for bikes with a wheelbase in between street and UCI.

The only problem with this is that people read internet forums trying to gauge which bike is right for them. As many people can't even test a bike before buying it.(like myself to an extent) And then they get these guys who have 1500 posts spreading long bike propaghanda(not kevin). AndrewT does everything he can to put down companies he doesn't like, using his practice videos to manipulate noobies. Most people on the forums are average level riders, who might not benefit from the set ups some of the expert riders preach. This is turning our extremely small, difficult, unknown sport into freeriding. Hopefully everything will cool down once we can all ride. I want a ZOO!, Monty or Megamo to go against you stubborn people. Didn't AndrewT post somewhere that 80% of people are stupid?

[cogmog]

If the idea works, build it, progress and dont be left behind. Why stay with sub-par design when you can make something better. If it wasn't for all these "ripp-offs" we would all have to pay 1200 bucks (or more) for a frame that only one company produces and all us non-pros (or non-experts like myself) would be stuck riding a monty (which i still ride by the way) for ever and ever (hopefully not for ever). WHat is a KOXX, 800 bucks for a level boss. So Zip It about "waaaa...they stold this design and BLAH BLAH BLAH...." RIde the Bike You Like and Shut UP!

[MegamoMidwest]

ive had my megamo for a little over a year now, have had some pretty bad stacks, and my headset is fine. I dont see anything wrong with it, heck I have to tighten it a hell of alot less than the standard cup headset on my SC Heckler. Maybe a long bike would suit me better, maybe not, I dont really care because my bike works for what I do, it works very well in fact, and I dont need some fancy 1050 dollar frame to let me have fun. different people have different preferences, and until you prove to me that my Megamo sucks, I will keep riding my bike.

[afrobot]

quote

"Didn't AndrewT post somewhere that 80% of people are stupid?"

Thank God I'm in the 97th percentile. :blah:

[WhiteRavenKS]

vince- you make a good point. too many people cant think for themselves. they read something and think "well thats what the majority thinks is good so it must be= ill take one please"

i would like to think that when i made the shift to long bikes i sharred my experience with other riders. i hope i told people that long bikes are not alwyas the best thing for less experienced riders and that unless you are a taller than average riders they dont really do much for you until you start hitting upper sport/expert level stuff.

megamos are good bikes. i really like the fact that they seem to be made to higher standards than many other trials frames. i cant stand anything but a conventional headset but thats not to say its the only reason i wont ride a megamo. one of the reasons the coustellier brothers no longer rider for megamo is because they broke the frames far too often for their comfort. i shouldnt really go into this on a forum much further though.

trials bikes are made form some pretty generic stuff most fo the time. simple things like dropouts are charred by many companies because they are cheap. machining or forging your own dorpout just to be different is rediculous. the coustellier frame has the same dropout that the mk 2/3 zebdi's had. oh noooes, coust copied PX?!?! hahahaa. but seriously though, too many stupid people take the stupid internet stuff too seriously. i must repeat what others have said- "go ride your bike"

yes i am a hypoctire.

[jimmybikes]

DangerousDave, when I saw the post I thought I knew right away, why you started it.

I agree, that to point fingers and spend time talking about how some one copied the Cos frame or the koxx frame, it a waste of time. Not only that, but it is like the pot calling the kettle black.

If designers of trials frames had to come up with all their own ideas, there would be very few trials bikes out there. And for sure there would be no Koxx or Cos frames.

The thing riders need to look at is does the frame they are thinking about getting match their style of riding and body type. Of course they also might want to look at the value of the bike and how long it will last.

Depending on where a rider is at, he may want to spend some silly price for the bike, because it will help him, but for most people they are not at that level.

Of course some people will want to buy a bike just for the name, companies count on that.

Once again DangerousDave, you did a good job of making your point and it is very valid, thanks for the post.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

[Justin.L]

quote"DangerousDave, when I saw the post I thought I knew right away, why you started it. "

he just wants attention :rolleyes: :joshers:

[BrettM]

Alls I know is I woke up and found a message on my computer from Dave and it mentioned something aboots his new personal gap record from flat to flat pedal kick...Lets just say the number didn't start with a 7...or even an 8...

[uownme]

I like pics of big gaps...they are pretty

[Justin.L]

i love Justin.L

:wtc: someone loves me...

[AndyT]

I've only read a few posts but a few people are talking bullshit about me. 80 % ? 90%, look in this thread you will see no exceptions to the rule.


Sorry I coudln't be part of the :greddy: debate but I was gone all weekend riding my BIKE. Try it some time .



slating me for talking shit about companies...do you know how many people I've suggested getting an echo over a koxx to? Or how many times I've told beginners/sport guys to get zebdis? I don't blindly tell someone to just get a 1080mm length koxx or coustellier and set up your bike like blah blah blah. That would be stupid. If you had the ability to read, and fucking COMPREHEND things I type you would never say this.

So get the FUCK off of my nuts for bullshit YOU make up.

[Coramoor]

Sorry I coudln't be part of the :greddy: debate but I was gone all weekend riding my BIKE. Try it some time .

This coming from the nr. 1 poster on the forum? :rofl:

[AndyT]

:rolleyes:


I ride my bike 1-4 hours a day, every day. Sorry if I'm proficient in TYPING and THINKING.



derrrf.

[hydroboy]

Alls I know is I woke up and found a message on my computer from Dave and it mentioned something aboots his new personal gap record from flat to flat pedal kick...Lets just say the number didn't start with a 7...or even an 8...

90cm?

OMFG thats huge.

[Gardenfan]

Alls I know is I woke up and found a message on my computer from Dave and it mentioned something aboots his new personal gap record from flat to flat pedal kick...Lets just say the number didn't start with a 7...or even an 8...

I was there, when he said to set it that far, I was like Fuck off, no way, not happening, then WHIRRRRRRRRR goes the king across the gap. It was fucking insane. And it was smoooth too, loudest part was the sound of his king spinning like a motherfucker across the gap.

[DangerousDave]

Hey Kevin, where did their Megamos break out of curiosity?

[WhiteRavenKS]

everywhere. headtubes, dropouts, bb shell areas. they put more stress on bikes than anyone i have ever seen. it doesnt surprise me that they broke megamo frames despite the fact that very few break under normal folks.

[BrettM]

Alls I know is I woke up and found a message on my computer from Dave and it mentioned something aboots his new personal gap record from flat to flat pedal kick...Lets just say the number didn't start with a 7...or even an 8...

90cm?

OMFG thats huge.

9 fuckin feet. I think its pretty safe to say he can out gap any rider in north america by 6 inches flat to flat pedal kick on that megamo.

[uownme]

i love Justin.L

:wtc: someone loves me...


that would be me! :bigthumb:

[uownme]

Alls I know is I woke up and found a message on my computer from Dave and it mentioned something aboots his new personal gap record from flat to flat pedal kick...Lets just say the number didn't start with a 7...or even an 8...

90cm?

OMFG thats huge.

9 fuckin feet. I think its pretty safe to say he can out gap any rider in north america by 6 inches flat to flat pedal kick on that megamo.

Is that a static gap or the rolling launching one?

[AndyT]

static gap.

[Coramoor]

Is that the gap in the end of the vid? That is fucking long...

[Gardenfan]

no, this one was this past weekend, and is a good 4" longer.

[chaloux]

so totally off topic now, i want to see that gap. i like gaps

[oicdn]

Go Megamo, LOL! Dave...DEFINITLY...SICK!

[hydroboy]

yes i was joking, i knwo he gaps fkn huge. ddave trials and antitrials 3 had some huge shit.

[stocktrials]

just to clarify I was being sarcastic

I have always admired Megamos ever since I first saw them years ago. Marc Caisso is one of my favourite sources of inspiration.. he proved to me how good Megamo really is.


"..OH, and by the way I was being sarcastic!"
"Well, duh.."

Go dave

[Rob.K]

So you guys are tellin me that it is humanly possible to pedal kick 9 feet. :eek3:

I can't even throw my bike that far.Even With a rolling start.

[Coramoor]

I can do 9ft. easily. And I've only been riding for 8 months...

Throw the bike that is.. :)

[WhiteRavenKS]

yes it is possible. why does this seem impossible?

[Rob.K]

cus i Suck

[oicdn]

yes it is possible. why does this seem impossible?

Cause on flat...On a GOOOD pedal kick...I can go only 6......Good meaning, 1/3 of the time only go that far. damn...9 feet is pretty insane.....

[WhiteRavenKS]

try pushing on the pedals really hard and pulling on the bars pretty hard too... flat ground i can get 8 feet easy and 8.5 on a great day. most days for me are crap and i can only juice out 7.5-

9 is huge.

i think flat to flat referes to no drop involved. not necessarily flat ground like on a sidewalk.

[Gardenfan]

Ya, the take off and landing were within an inch of each other in height. When we weren't competing, we were all trying to bust out new records. Of course Dave showed us all up, but I think we are all pretty happy with the results. This one kid Jessie I was helping out hit like 6'4", which is about 6" more than he was hitting before the show started. I finally consistently got into the 7 and change mark. It was a blast.

[oicdn]

Fuck...I can consistently hit like 5 feet....between 4 and 5 is my norm...5.5 is a good day, and I think I've hit 6 feet like a handfull of times....maybe 10 optimisticly.....

But damn...all you guys hitting 7+...damn...you guys can soar.....I dunno, I woke up one morning and I went from like 2 feet to 5......it just clicked.....Now, if only pedal ups could do that, LOL!

[Elan]

i forgot how to pedal up and slap up....i can get like 2'

[cck]

i remember back in the santa cruz chameleon (chramelean, martin) days i could gap huge cause of the long chain stays, like around 8+. i ride koxx lb 1080 now, and its much harder to gap that far for me. but with me test riding a megamo at snowshoe the chainstays seem similar and 9 feet is deff. possible

[DangerousDave]

I don't think stays really affect gapping. My biggest gaps were done on my zoo boa that i had for two weeks and it had 15" stays.
tiny changes in body position maybe but i didn't find either bike to be different. or maybe it was just the longer front end of the boa helped me as well. You have so much more room to stretch out and maneuver while doing your gap.

[cck]

longer stays = more leverage = big gaps = megamo's thinking = shitty for all other moves

[DangerousDave]

yea the long stays better for gaps thing is bullshit. the only real difference i find is its less twitchy. which makes for less responsiveness too...

[cck]

i'm not saying one should use longer chainstays cause thats just stupid. but i did feel the diff. on my old long chainstay bike. however, i believe with proper preload of pure trials geometry one can gap farther than with long chainstays.

[Coramoor]

I don't understand why you get more leverage with longer stays..
The way I see it you have less leverage.

But more of the pedal kick will be tranformed into forward motion. But this can easily be outweighed by leaning more forwards.. And I did not find it easier to gap with my old bike. Which had really long stays(16,7").

[Burn]

im glad that zoo! copies companies. they sell a decent frame for a very decent price. if it wasnt for zoo! i would still be riding my evolve and wouldnt have progressed as much as i have on the zoo!.

zoo! is great.. .. .

[DMArnt]

This has cracked me up.
From "Koxx are gay" to "I can gap this far.." to "The length of stays lets u.." now to "ZOO! rule cause there bikes are cheaper .."

Whats next on this thread. "Artificially inseminating cows without a glove should be legal?"

[Coramoor]

I'd say discussing morrowind would be better. Cause I just can't seem to find sulipund.. :(

[Matt]

knock it off with the cow pictures.