Coustellier Bike

[Faction Bike]

Just to let you guys know, the early word on the street is the Coustellier bike is starting production here soon, with the first bikes arriving in the states around the middle of January. Tryall America will be one of the distributors of these elite frames in the United States. Before the importer ships the frames to the states, they would like to get a good idea for the public interest in this frame as well as set up some preorders.

If any of you are interested in purchasing this frame to be delivered in Januray or you have any questions, please contact me at the email address below for more details. Also, to give you an idea of the Coustellier frame's pricepoint, the importer says it will be on par with the Koxx levelboss. Thanks for your time and take care.

Graham

[Matt]

I'm guessing that no one will jump blindly into this Graham, perhaps you could provide us with some specs before we decide (you know I will be looking for a new frame around this time I hope). Geometry specs? Potential Price range? weight? warranty?

[WhiteRavenKS]

wheelbase- 1060ish. bb height- high, probably zero drop stays- short, around 15 even. standover- more than a mod. weight- beefy but stiff as a mofo.

matt if you are looking into a new bike, this is one to browse at for sure. i cant believe how well this bike rode when i hopped on it. if i were not riding a desalvo (that will kick an equal amount of ass, y'all will see or at least on paper it will) i would absolutely be riding a coustellier about the third week of january. ;)

[WhiteRavenKS]

o yeah, warranty- they were talking about a year and price will be comparable to the koxx bikes. like i said about the weight- you wont care after you do about... well after you build it up and look at it cus it will ride so nice that it will feel pounds lighter than it really is. to give you an idea, my SL desalvo weighed 3.2 pounds for the frame and built into a 21ish pound bike, the coustellier set up for their practice bikes was around 26 pounds... it "rode" lighter and better than my bike.

[Faction Bike]

come on now....I'm trying to CON people. You're screwing up my con. Right now that info is super top secret.....errr maybe not. I should be finding out in the next couple of days here the exact answers to all those questions.

Oh wait, oh wait, this just in. I got a knock at my door just now and low and behold it's biker clause in a one piece hebo lycra suit. He's brought a bag full of answers as well as a bag of, errr, parsely to spread joy and good cheer. Here are his answers.

Weight: "14.7898 kg and that's will the optional keggerator"
Wheelbase: "Kid, if that's anything like freebase, I don't touch"
Chainstays: "Mrs. Clause did that to me once"
Angles: "Well first you walk up to her and say, hey, do you have a brother?"
Cost: "Hey, you promised me some f-ing corndogs, I'm going to 7-eleven"


Well, um, there you have it. I let you know the real answers here in a few days. Just putting out the word.

[afrobot]

To change the subject slightly.The ZOO is supposed to be 550 and weiging in in the red corner wearing the neon green decals at about 4 1/4 lbs.With a wheel base of 1060.
It's a crowd favorite.

[WhiteRavenKS]

come on now....I'm trying to CON people. You're screwing up my con. Right now that info is super top secret......

like the water in the brake lines--- that was supposed to be on the downlow... like way lower than the low down. and the antifreeze was lowere than even that! way to go.... :rofl: just j'in

[dingus]

about this bike,
and the woodman and the pure 1060 et all.

Before wheelbase became one of the most contentious points on a bike no one really talked about it from a performance standpoint and it seems like no one has really found the sweet spot yet.

To give an example of the opposite, chainstay length has been debated and refined and now it seems pretty unanimously that 15" even is feasibly about as good as it gets, and not bad.

Im about to buy a longer wb bike, Ive always felt my zebdi a little too short for my interests in riding. Not being able to just testride the latest frames and designs I- like most other trialsiners- have to guess wisely.

Now the question that goes with this bike
The bike was designed from the sons' inputs and is then either their preferential wheelbase or, they use one or more specialized frames for competeing that have differing geometry for the various courses and the production frame is somewhat more of a one size fits all design.

My reason for asking is because I admire the talents of these brothers and I think Im going to use them as a pattern, ie, ratio of my height to theirs times (X) this frame's wb = the wheelbase that will fit me as their bikes fit them~ eh kinda, I know. If thats lame I dont care. :eek3:

Im really leaning towards a pure 1080 even though just a little while ago I wanted a woodman. The reason Id like to go with the echo is for the whole centimeter more and a higher bb, infact the chainstays might be shorter too :joshers:

[AndyT]

They are supposed to use just one frame for what I know, the frame is different from the ZOO! copy (look at the rear triangle). Is it worth the extra money??? Thats up to you- I think I would be fine with the ZOO! model, I'm an extremely light rider...I don't break anything except forks :) Someone concerned about breaking a frame should look into the koxx or coustellier if they want the new top o tha line UCI dealy bob. I've spent considerable time on a crescent, koxx 1065, koxx 1100 and koxx mod... the extra lenght helps a ton in every aspect of PURE trials. Don't expect to have fun riding it around town. This will be the same wtih the pure 1080 or coustellier.


From your choices, whatever you get should be mint :) (I'm drunk so sorry if any of this is unreadable)

[WhiteRavenKS]

dingus- they ride one bike for comps and one for practice. the comp one has some crazy stuff done to it but the practice one has more run of the mill stuff. keep in mind their average, normal parts are still crazily nice though. they do not ride more than one bike with different gemetries. that would get way to complex. they would have to get used to multiple geometries- no dice. they pick one that works for them and roll with it.

the father with the help of the sons input cooked up the whole koxx long bike theory. if you look at the old koxx bikes from when bruno was riding them, they are all short. on the longer side of short but still short. when the coustellier brothers came along and papa coose designed the geometry for the LB 1065, the whole wheelbase revolution in uci came to be.

when it comes to riding uci trials, the coustellier brothers know their business. i trust that anything they lay down in design is the best that it can be. they mean business and they wouldnt implement something into a design if they didnt feel it was the ONLY way to go. this bike rides so very nice. only thing out there i have ever straddled that beats out my current DS (though the xtp is a slick rig, riding that thing feels goooood). the coustellier is going to kick some ass for trials riding. dont expect to do anything other than uci comp style riding on it though.

[dingus]

what rolls better: long or short?
its not that obvious

[smudge]

the long bike should roll better. I don't know for a fact just yet, but it seems to me that the "long" bikes get their long wheelbase by slackening the head angle a few degrees. has anyone measured the effective TT on these newer bikes yet? when trying to get a feel for a new bike, you can't go by wheelbase alone. It's somewhat deceptive to refer to a Koxx as long...especially when some people are coming from an XC type background...I generally think of long or short bikes with reference to the length of the TT and not the wheelbase. For example, a typical 18" XC frame has an effective TT of about 23 inches, where my Specialist is 24.75...certainly a long bike. It sure would be great to get measurements from frame manufacturers with relavent geometry information. That's why i'm going to start keeping track and put up a "database" of sorts with all kinds of information so we can try to make more informed decisions about frames we wish to purchase.

-S

[AndyT]

Too a point, short rolls better...The only reason I say this is with a WAY long bike I had problems reaching the handlebars on super steep roll downs! You get used to it, but i would be barely holding on to stuff when I rolled down big things (I was all about rolling down things at one time, fences are FUN!)

[smudge]

Andrew, while using that super long bike, were your bars lower than they were on something like your Crescent?

[AndyT]

I went through 4-5 diff stem/bar set ups on the crescent and 2-3 on the koxx, at different times one was higher or shorter or longer or whatever...but yes higher bars should make it easier- the length of the bike still dictates the difficulty. How could I prove this??


I had a mod stint this summer, I spent a month on a monty x-lite and about that much on a koxx lb mod. The monty I could roll down anything, with the koxx I would have problems doing those kind of moves- it dictates mostly rear wheel only, which is fine :)


I wonder how the ZOO! rides...cough cough...

[smudge]

Interesting. I don't have much experience with long wheelbase trials bikes, but I've found that steep roll downs are much easier on my long wheelbase MTB. It's long wheelbase AND long top tube, which would seem a bit counterintuitive if it weren't for the long travel fork and high bars. I can definitely see how a long bike and low bars would make steep roll downs somewhat of a bitch but I still wonder about a long bike and a "normal" bar height. Also, I want to get my hands on one of those lucious long Koxx and measure the actual length of the cockpit. :greddy: Seriously. I do. Since top tube length is so subjective on a trials bike, I'm thinking of something along the lines of a C to C measurement from the BB to the TT/HD joint.

[afrobot]

My 2 pence is go long with a short stem and compensate with a steep rake on the fork.This will keep your bars over you axle instead of too far back.

[Bloodhound]

My 2 pence is go long with a short stem and compensate with a steep rake on the fork.This will keep your bars over you axle instead of too far back.

I totally disagree, I say go for a shorter WB (1040-1060) and a longer stem (around 120mm). The further the handlebars are over the axel the more leverage you have to pivot the nose. Leverage = control & precision.

Personally I ride a 1060mm WB with a 120mm stem but could do with another good centimeter or perhaps two. I'm 6'.

[AndyT]

well bloodhound, the coustelliers seem to have no problems with long bikes and short stems...of course short is subjective. It's all personal preference, whatever works for you the best.

[WhiteRavenKS]

you are much better off having your bike length come from the wheelbase than from your stem length. with proper bar positioning and a comfy stem set up (a short one i mean) you will have just as much control, if not more than with a short bike and long stem. thats the set up im on right now- 1040-ish wheelbase with a 120mm stem (and i am about 5'7") and though it rides nice, it doesnt even compare to the benifits of having that same net length only with more of it in the wheelbase.

the coustellier bike is amazing. giacomo has several inches on me and when i got on the bike it felt like pure gold. whenever the best rider in the world gives me a tip i tend to listen, oui?

[Fast Fashion]

long WB = huge wedges and easy touchhopping. you can't achieve this with a long stem and short WB.

[[BMF]Andy]

With all the talk about how a long bike is better than a short bike for "pure" trials I am surprised no one has really attempted to point out some benefits of a short bike over a long bike.

I am assuming as Dolphin said that the main benefit of a long bike is bigger wedges and higher/easier touchopping. These are definetly the advantages that also come to my mind

Think, for a change, of a situation with very little room for the bike on top of an obstacle. In this case the short bike will obviously have the advantage.

A good example of this is in the new Coustellier vid. When one of them sidehops to both wheel on that trash can before gapping to the lion. The world champ made it look super easy even though his wheels were barely hanging on with his long wheelbase. Put a short bike in that same position such as a monty, and you will have a lot more of your tires in contact with the top of the garbage can. This in turn will make you much steadier and better balanced.

Perhaps the advantages of a long bike outweigh the advantages of a short bike. I have a different theory as to why there has been a sudden surge in the popularity of these long wheelbase bikes.

I think that not many people had ridden a bike such as a Koxx 1065 until the last couple of months. Then when you do get the chance to try one you instantly notice all the things it helps you do better such as touchhopping or simply setting your wheel on a higher obstacle and remaining in a comfortable body position. It is then easy to overlook what the bike may be making harder for you because you are so impressed by your increased abilities in certain areas.

I have spent some time on BMF Chris' long Koxx mod. I too instantly went to see how high I could put my front wheel up on something and remain balanced. It was amazing too me and I thought it was great. Then as we rode more and did some lunges to rear up the inclined faces of rocks there were many instances in which my PX stood out as better than the long Koxx. I will post some crude diagrams showing this situation right after this post.

Basically I think that a long wheelbase bike changes a riders ability a very large and noticeable amount in certain areas. This makes people quickly assume that it must be better because not many things have such a big effect on ability like a longer wheelbase bike does. No one stops to think that there may be as many disadvantages as advantages.

[[BMF]Andy]

Here is the diagrams I mentioned above. The example being that for a rock of this shape it is impossible for the long wheelbase to have both wheels on the inclined face of the rock while the short wheelbase easily manages it.


http://web.utk.edu/~alistes/wheelbaseexample.jpg

[Bloodhound]

yea I guess the Coustelliers do OK having that setup... hehe j/k

I think it is also personal human geometry that determines what setup does you best. Some people have longer arms, longer legs, longer upperbody. Different people have different strengths in different limbs/ares. I definately have longer legs than most and try to utilize as much of my upper body strength as possible, I dont see how this would alter things but perhaps it does.

To me -1050 is short, 1060 medium, 1070+ long. In most of the obstagles I encounter, a shorter WB is bennificial due to limited space, but I like as much body movement as possible - hence the long stem. i can also feel huge improvement in my nose pivots with longer stem, but it also make the front harder to pull up - thats why I like my stays to be as short as possible.

At the end of the day everything has pro's and con's and its all up to prefrence.

[AndyT]

I've spent over a year on long bikes, only to go longer...sorry andy, but they are here to stay...I went from 1065 to 1100. They change you're style- you don't do as much both wheel things, you do 10x as much rear wheel things.

In terms of you're theory, you just have to get used to being barely on each tire...just a new move to learn. In the situation that a short wheelbased bike would barely fit, a long won't at all- you just stick to rear wheel.


The ONLY thing a long wheelbased bike is seriously crappy at is spinning...and you can learn that too, just have to adjust.

[RomanC]

Are the gaps to front wheel easier on a longer bike vs shorter one?

[AndyT]

yes.

[Fast Fashion]

Andy, your points with the shorter bike make sense. I remember my PX being very handy in toght situations. BUT, with a longer bike those moves that were easier on a shorter bike, are obsolete on a longer bike. instead of going to both wheels on somehting small, you just have to go to rear, and it's much easier on a longer bike. also, if you are in such a tight space you can rest your front wheel on the thing you are trying to go to, and then wedge up it or surge, or side hop. The length does give you and advantage, you just have to get used to the riding style required for the bike. I have seen pics of you ride and i don't doubt you could pick it up very easily a i did. might wanna give a longer bike a shot one of these days. i think you'd like it.

[randomrider]

A longer Koxx is a better Koxx.

[RomanC]

Yeah I guess having the long distance from BB to front wheel will make it act like a big lever with your feet being the pivot... Hopefully somebody will be selling one of them long bikes cheap this winter and I will have the cashola to aquire one...