my wheels still slip!

[HipHopapotomus]

so i've been trying to put in some hours on my bike (old 80's Haro that i got for free) but the dang wheels keep slipping.

i'm getting to where i'm stuck, i can't get any better until i get my wheels to stop moving.

i sanded the pads to rough them up, and i know many talk about using a grinder on the wheels. i took a file to them lightly to rough 'em up, but it seems to have no effect. i don't just want to take a grinder at them without some sort of guidance. any suggestions or people in B-more (i know you're out there) who wanna help me out??

[trauma100]

Grind and run a propper brake and pad's.

80's Haro you say? :noes:

post some pics of your set up and we can better assist you with your problem

[Big-D]

try putting some roofing tar on the rim. Spin your tire, and just barley touch the tar to the rim. Will make a blood curdling screech and will lock your brakes.
Don't put much on though. Too much and your pads will stick to your rim. Also, riding in wet will make it slippery.

I have heard of spraying belt dressing onto a rag and rubbing it on the rims, but i have never tried.

As for the grinding, it really isn't all that difficult. A bit nerve racking the 1st time, but after that, its pretty easy. Just barely touch it with the grinder all the way around. Just remember to deflate the tire first + hold it back. Heard too many stories of people grinding right into their tire.

[FDS2223]

I have heard of spraying belt dressing onto a rag and rubbing it on the rims, but i have never tried.

I use belt dressing sometimes, you have to apply it very lightly or it will build up and turn into some crappy gook on your rim. Its really only a short term solution compared to tar though which will probably stay on the rim much longer before needing a re-application.

[HipHopapotomus]

snicker all you want but free is several hundred dollars cheaper than what most people spend on their first trials bike...

here is the trusty steed
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9254/haro6od2.jpg

the front brake is a Campy (whom i didn't know made anything other than road parts, much less trials...)
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5403/haro5oa1.jpg

the rear is Deore XT
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8646/haro4tu2.jpg

i'm a little concerned about grinding the rims because of their age, not because i think they'll break or anything, but they might not have been made for that sort of 'attention'
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7820/haro3sh5.jpg

here is the rear wheel's braking surface
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5655/haro2fr8.jpg

i took a file to the front rim to roughen it some, and you can see the difference in the photos, but it really doesn't seem to make any difference in the stopping power.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8382/haro1hy9.jpg

i feel like the brake pads are in good shape, but maybe they need to be even softer/rougher than i am used to on a normal road or mountain bike?

[john trials]

When I first started trials, I tried to avoid grinding my rim (I figured it'd shorten the life on my rim...I was looking for a solution that would roughen the rim, but not remove much material). I tried using a vibrating etching/engraving tool to roughen the rim. I tried using a utility knife to slash the rim. I finally gave in and tried grinding...there's nothing better than a fresh grind!!!!!!!

[caleb1978]

I put a fresh grind on my rims for the first time this weekend. They had already been ground, but it wears out ofter a while. It really was not to difficult. I found a real great description and photos here by using the search tool. I would suggest finding a rim you don't use, and practicing on that first. I also read several people suggest baking, or burning the pads to remove any contamination.
Have you tried cleaning with alcohol or anything?

[Edge]

what moves are you doing when it slips?

[netto]

i dont think those brakes will hold your wheel that well even with a grind.

[HipHopapotomus]

what moves are you doing when it slips?

anything. i know the brakes probably aren't good enough to handle me jumping all over the place, but right now i can't even pop a wheelie or endo without them slipping. there's gotta be something that will help.

[Edge]

i know sometimes when i get lazy i forget to apply strong pressure on my good foot. won't help with an endo but will help in other situations. just something else to remember.

[Rodmunch]

Change the pads. Maybe you can find some Kool Stops that fit. Those are probably the original dried up pads on your bike.

[HipHopapotomus]

i know there are trials specific pads, are there any that will fit these brakes? or are they all designed for a different retension system? (i know the maguras are a lot different)

i saw these plasmatic crv pads on www.trialspads.com that look like they MIGHT be compatible, but i don't know for sure
http://trialspads.com/shop/images/product_images/product_image_1478.jpg

[cwbashaw]

Stop by trialsin (Avalon) and get some moe pads. You may need to cut the bolts on the pads down a little but they should work fine.

Or I can put a grind on for you let me know. Do you still have the tar I gave you. If not I can give you som more if you prefer not to grind. That bike uses standard 20" BMX wheels front and rear so don't worry about trashing the wheels they're easy to find and cheap to replace.

I'm sure we're riding this weekend you should come out.

[HipHopapotomus]

i don't think you gave me any tar?

i'm riding tour dem parks on sunday, but i'm down for saturday if you guys go out. i'm "newly single" so i have a lot more time on my hands now and have spent much more time on the bike.

p.s. i thought you were moving to RI?

[jaimer]

I also read several people suggest baking, or burning the pads to remove any contamination.
Have you tried cleaning with alcohol or anything?

This is for a disk break, not a rim brake.

[caleb1978]

I have never had a disk, sure you are right. Are disk pads for a bike similar to pads on a car-like a hard carcinogen pad?
I thought it was strange that anyone would burn a rubber pad, but also never would have thought people would grind on a perfectly good rim.

[jak442]

Get new pads... anything but rubber. Those old rubber pads get hard as hell from the heat and look pretty old anyway.

Grid the rims... you'll bend those long before you grind thru. And 20's are cheap. Or just use some 60-80 grit sandpaper, sanding straight up and down from the axle.

And keep in mind that, even with good brakes, you still have to hop up into an endo... and learning them with a crap brake probably isn't the worst thing as it'll force you to find the balance point without relying on the brake so much.


I just had a flashback to like 1980 and "foot jam" endos on a yellow schwinn with a gold banana seat and a sissy bar.

[cwbashaw]

i don't think you gave me any tar?

i'm riding tour dem parks on sunday, but i'm down for saturday if you guys go out. i'm "newly single" so i have a lot more time on my hands now and have spent much more time on the bike.

p.s. i thought you were moving to RI?


Look in the handlebar there should be a small plastic bag stuck in there with a little ball of tar.

I'm probably going to the Balt Science museum Saturday to see the Body exhibit so I'm out for Saturday.

I'm moving to RI in a few months (hopefully by OTN DAYS EAST) I have to get my house sold and get some seperation/divorce issues taken care of before I leave the state.

[HipHopapotomus]

i've been to the body exhibit. it's cool... kinda creepy... but it don't take all day! comeon!

[cwbashaw]

i've been to the body exhibit. it's cool... kinda creepy... but it don't take all day! comeon!


That is true. We're supposed to go out for a steak dinner after. I'll see how that goes though.

I'll have to try to get out, but have to take it easy because my ACL is fucked right now, and I don't want to make it worse before the comp. Are you going to Belle Isle next weekend?

[va_tick]

just throw a cheap set of v-brakes on ther with some dece pads and a grind!

[rndm*dv8n]

don't think vees would be compatible with the u-brake posts... I can't think of anything worse than cantilever brakes.

Is there a way of attaching a set of maggies to those posts? I'm interested because I have the same problem with my bmx bike.

Otherwise maybe an Odyssey Evolver with decent pads and a linear slick cable for the back wheel?

[HipHopapotomus]

well i took chris' advice and got new pads from avalon. they help a lot. i still get movement but i think that's just me not remembering to squeeze hard... when i concentrate they are pretty solid.

thanks for all the replies, now i can come back with new questions on "how the hell do i do that?"

to the post above, obviously mags can't be put right on because they use a different mounting system, i found an adapter to go from 4 bolt to v-brake (why?) but nothing the other way around... i would think someone would make it if it's possible though...

[[BMF] Chris]

tar is the only thing that will get that thing to lock. i used to lightly grind my rims, then tar them up. i dont care what the haters say, it works. now im rear disc.

[cwbashaw]

Chris;501849']tar is the only thing that will get that thing to lock. i used to lightly grind my rims, then tar them up. i dont care what the haters say, it works. now im rear disc.
:werd:

He's right for that brake setup Tar and a grind is the best way to go, maybe upgrading to a better set of levers may help too, and later you can upgrade if you get more serious about the sport.
Don't worry about what everyone else says get a copy of "level vibes" Hans Rey was doing sick stuff on the old mod bikes similar to yours that most of us can't even do on modern bikes. http://www.spiffie.com/trials/pics/hans-02.jpg

[HipHopapotomus]

i found no tar in my bars, just fyi

[cwbashaw]

i found no tar in my bars, just fyi

I'll bring some up for you I have tons of it.
PM'ed you with my #

[MIKE1968]

i dont think those brakes will hold your wheel that well even with a grind.

.


And even if it does, those pads will disappear in a day.

[jaimer]

well i took chris' advice and got new pads from avalon. they help a lot. i still get movement but i think that's just me not remembering to squeeze hard... when i concentrate they are pretty solid.

thanks for all the replies, now i can come back with new questions on "how the hell do i do that?"

to the post above, obviously mags can't be put right on because they use a different mounting system, i found an adapter to go from 4 bolt to v-brake (why?) but nothing the other way around... i would think someone would make it if it's possible though...

You can buy evo adapters, that make maguras compatible with v posts. Also some people prefer to run v brakes and they frame they want or have only comes with 4 bolt mounts, and they may wanna switch.

[rndm*dv8n]

You can buy evo adapters, that make maguras compatible with v posts. Also some people prefer to run v brakes and they frame they want or have only comes with 4 bolt mounts, and they may wanna switch.

Look at the pictures, the frame doesn't have v posts. It has cantilever, or u-brake, posts.

Maguras have been around long enough that there must be adapters to fit the older cantilever posts...?

[cwbashaw]

I tried to modify some EVO mounts to work on 990's for my bmx bike. the mounts were a little too short for the pads to line up with the rim.

I would look around they make a V-brake adapter that is a clamp you put on the seatstays made for XC bikes that only have disc mounts.

Stay away from the plate style ones like this one http://www.danscomp.com/489051.php?cat=PARTS they wont hold for trials use. If I find a link to the other type I'll let you know.

[firewrx612]

As far as I know you can only put a U-Brake on U-brake posts. The posts are outside the diameter of the rim where as on canti/v-mounts they are inside.

That front u-brake is a Campy Euclid which gives you many OG points as does the xt U-brake. If it was mounted under the chainstay and had a sharks tooth, you'd get triple OG cool points.

If I think way back to 88 when I was trying to get my U-brake to work better (a mostly pointless operation) I think lengthening the cable that links the two arms, thereby moving the cradle away from the arms will give you a bit more power. Of course it may be too tight in there to do it, but give it a shot. Also, it's kind of hard to explain, but bend the wires so that when you pull on the brake, the brake lever doesn't waste travel taking up slack in the cables.

Maybe you could do something creative with upside down EVO mounts. I'm not sure if the distance from u brake mounts and v brake mounts to rim centerline are the same though.

[rndm*dv8n]

As far as I know you can only put a U-Brake on U-brake posts. The posts are outside the diameter of the rim where as on canti/v-mounts they are inside.

I stand corrected, canti/vees are the same and the mount is specifically a u-brake mount, I wasn't sure about that.

I've been considering the Odyssey evolver as a way to get better lock up on my u-brake equipped bmx, thoughts?

http://www.cyclepath.ca/products/usrimage/cat174.gif

[tubender]

the shimano U brake is the stiffest one of it's type. Extend the sling as mentioned. Get a quality cable and an extra long lever designed for canti brakes like old, old shimano. If you apply enough leverage, those calipers will crush a rim.

[firewrx612]

Yeah, the levers I have on my Diamondback arrival look like they came off of a motorcycle.

[carnagr]

I stand corrected, canti/vees are the same and the mount is specifically a u-brake mount, I wasn't sure about that.

I've been considering the Odyssey evolver as a way to get better lock up on my u-brake equipped bmx, thoughts?

http://www.cyclepath.ca/products/usrimage/cat174.gif

Sweet brake. Definitely one of the best U-brakes out there. Evolver + Koolstop Salmon + chrome rim = perfect BMX brake.

[Elan]

u brakes cant lock shit.

[beastoftheeast]

i vote get tar. and try to find trials pads. i would grind that rim, its probably weak and thin as it is, need all the life and strength it can get i would think...

[FDS2223]

My advice is to ditch your shit bike and get one without crappy u-brakes

[HipHopapotomus]

"my advice is to drop a grand on a sport you decided to give a try on a whim a couple months ago" :rolleyes:

[FDS2223]

Truth hurts man, im just telling you this because ive spent my fair share of time trying to squeeze the last bits of life out of shitty gear. In th end its not worth the time or the money because it will always be an issue again and again. But by all means just keep being a smart ass and go eat shit when your shitty u-brakes slip.

[Cypher Components]

I get all my gear used. 1000 not necessary. Look around and get a frame and brakes for under half that. It's your best chance of giving the sport a fair go.

[netto]

Truth hurts man, im just telling you this because ive spent my fair share of time trying to squeeze the last bits of life out of shitty gear. In th end its not worth the time or the money because it will always be an issue again and again. But by all means just keep being a smart ass and go eat shit when your shitty u-brakes slip.

you are a faggot. stfu. if he can't afford a dedicated trials bike then he can't have one. doesn't mean he cant enjoy the sport

[FDS2223]

you are a faggot. stfu. if he can't afford a dedicated trials bike then he can't have one. doesn't mean he cant enjoy the sport

I never said he couldn't enjoy the sport you jackass. Hes on here asking how to make fucking old ass u-brake work for trials and I'm telling him from my personal experience with equally shitty gear that if he wants to continue to enjoy the sport and not waste his time always trying to make his gear work then he needs new shit. Even if he puts trial pads on theres no guarantee his brakes will work well enough. Ive wasted plenty time and money to avoid buying new stuff only for more problems to come up. I don't know him or what he can afford and you don't either but I do know that hes on here asking advice and I gave it to him, so why don't you stfu please.

before you act like a fucking asshole to me please point where I told him he couldn't ride trials with the bike he has.

[HipHopapotomus]

:joshers:

[FDS2223]

oh and your a little shit, you bash my advice, then you start looking into that Monty. Your a fucking joke.

[ramnation1]

the posting for the plazmatpads is the best one so far besides the grind. If you got the bike for free, these are cheap upgrades and definately a must do! The aluminum rims (if you notice) have a light milky look about them. This is from calcium build up which happens over time if just sitting. You need to use a steel wool to clean this stuff off, then grind the rim. After you're done doing that, make sure you clean off your pads (if you're set on using those there) with PVC primer (rim as well). What this does is (2) things. It will soften up the pads, and give the rim and pads a clean fresh start to go off of. DO NOT USE TAR! If your rims ever get wet while you are riding you'll be screwed! Let me know how it goes...

[ramnation1]

oh yeah... if you need help adjusting your brakes, email me through here... I have a few bikes with those probably from the same era LOL