Old Skool

[lucky13]

Are there any frames in the market that still sport a seat but don't have a drop bb height when you rock a rigid fork?

I'm kinda regretting that I got rid of my Desalvo as I'm doing a lot of slow technical trail riding that doesn't even really need a sus fork. Kinda just want a trialsy single speed mtb.

[trauma100]

I still have a Zebdi but you have to fight Connor for it!

[lucky13]

I was looking at that Comencal MAX MAX, but even with a 420mm fork the bb looks like a neg 15,... not much off from 0, but enough to make moto switchbacks and manuals kinda lame.

Maybe a Reset? Can I squeeze 26" wheels into that? googlizing

[Mr_Penut]

tibo:dunno:

[Pritchett]

I've got a Crescent Illions frame from back in the day. It's in pretty good shape.

I'll be looking to get rid of it as soon as I find a nice used stock frame with a highish BB.

[lucky13]

Less trials more MTB

I think I'm going to find out if a 26" wheel will fit in the Reset, or if it's fine on the trails with 24"

I've already got an STP built with a firefly that is pretty fun to ride, but I'm looking to go full ridgid and less weight.


http://www.observedtrials.net/otn4/STP.JPG
http://www.observedtrials.net/otn4/STP4.JPG

[lucky13]

And if Lance is watching: what sort of setup do you have on your Saint Cranks?

[Elan]

older echo pure. theres one on the forsale forum. derrrr

[lucky13]

Disc mounts are a must.

[Mr_Penut]

like I said tibo would probably be decent, especially if you are taller. I'd also consider looking at actual mtb frames with a suspension corrected rigid for more possibly better options.

[lucky13]

like I said tibo would probably be decent, especially if you are taller. I'd also consider looking at actual mtb frames with a suspension corrected rigid for more possibly better options.


Yea, I know what you mean, but the difference between a rare 420 fork on a dirtjumper and a trials bike with a seathole stub is pretty big.

I'll probly just have to ride what I have and love it as is.

[smudge]

If I weren't about to build it back up to dick around in Portland, I'd offer to sell my Specialist.

Have you thought about buying a sus-corrected fork for the STP? Swap the fork and you're set. Cheaper than a new full build. Sure a bit of a pain once in a while but should get the job done.

[Mr_Penut]

most dirtjumpers ride like shit. Find an old sc chameleon/ellsworth specialist and be happy:dunno:

or get that guy from peru to build you a frame for 80$

[lucky13]

If I weren't about to build it back up to dick around in Portland, I'd offer to sell my Specialist.

Have you thought about buying a sus-corrected fork for the STP? Swap the fork and you're set. Cheaper than a new full build. Sure a bit of a pain once in a while but should get the job done.

I've got a noodly Surly fork that isn't quite long enought to get the bb up where I want it.

I'll go measure to see what I'm dealing with,.. I'm pretty sure the geometry of the STP is crappy without a sus fork, and no one makes a rigid fork over 420 right?

[Mr_Penut]

what length are the dmr forks... and what about that funn 20mm thing. I'm sure they probably weigh more that what you were looking for, but at least you won't break them:mamoru:

[Blitzmo]

It's steel but it's really fun to ride.
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=11263&d=1196384392

[moric]

How about a Czar freetrials?

[justtysen]

...and no one makes a rigid fork over 420 right?
There are some that are 438. And, if you want even more, a lot of the 29er rigid forks are 468-470.


I've got a noodly Surly fork...
If you want stiff and long the Surly Instigator fork is 447 and thick. Cheap but 3.13 lbs. If you'd rather light and expensive the White Brothers Rock Solid fork comes in 425, 445, and 465 and is only 1.6-1.7 lbs. It's got 34mm carbon legs so it's probably pretty stiff. The On-One Superlight Carbon fork is a bit cheaper and weighs 1.98-2 lbs coming in 440 and 470.

The total price range is about $80 to $320.


For frames there is the Dobbermann Pinscher (~$500):
SMALL : 21.5" top tube
LARGE : 22.5" top tube
- Ajustable chainstays from 14.75" to 15.5" (375mm/395mm) (365mm/14.37" on the 2008)
- 110mm / 69° head tube
- 12.5" / 71° seat tube
- 31.6mm seatpost / 34.9mm seatclamp
- +15mm BB height

And Atomlab Trailking ($500):
Top Tube: 23.25"
Chainstays:14.5-15.5
Head Angle: 69°
Seattube: 70° (13.5")
BB Height: 13.3

[lucky13]

Holy fork info, jettysen!

Thanks a bunch,.. all I came up with was a bunch of lame-o dirtjump stuff for overkill huckin and bailing or the other extreme of featherweight xc long, lean and tall.

[lucky13]

How about a Czar freetrials?

the standover is so low the seat is useless,.. think more slalom trials.

then again,.. I'll go look at that again.

[dannyboy]

iv got an old pashley frame and an old steel megamo frame :)

[Shawnee 1]

I am not Lance, but I do run a Saint crank with a Grannygod bash guard, 22 tooth Race Face. I know you said single speed. But on rear I run Hope Pro ll with a 7-speed cassette (21-12) with 7-speed chain and SG rear derailleur.
I use this set up to ride x/c and some trials

[smudge]

T...a lot of the 29er rigid forks are 468-470.


pa-POW!

[lucky13]

I found a fork that'll do,.. 468 29'r that I'll cut the canti bosses off of. Hopefully the rake will feel fine.

But on to better things,.. gotta upgrade to hydro discs before going on a roadtrip to Moab in April.

Sean, you doing anything 4/19-4/27?

[smudge]

I found a fork that'll do,.. 468 29'r that I'll cut the canti bosses off of. Hopefully the rake will feel fine.

But on to better things,.. gotta upgrade to hydro discs before going on a roadtrip to Moab in April.

Sean, you doing anything 4/19-4/27?

I wish I wasn't. I have five frames due before then, have to make a bed frame and overhaul a South Bend Heavy 10 I just had delivered on Monday. If magic happens and I can get all that shit done, I'm in like that medicine woman.

[beedlo]

I have a 425mm Aprebic fork with disc mounts AND 4 bolt mounts. Uncut and unused. PM me if your interested.

Brandon

[tubender]

I am thinking about building something like this. I will make a spare or two.

[Pete Gossett]

I'm in a similar situation. I didn't find any new frames close to what I wanted & really didn't want a used PX(with a possibly questionable history), so I decided to build my own frame also.

I'm only on the prototype right now. I hacked up a couple junk bikes & threw something together just to check out the geometry. So far I really like the way it rides. It's heavy & has a too much flex/twist to it....but this one is only mild steel. I'm still trying to decide if I might shorten the front end a bit more before I build the *real* frame.

Anyway, here's a pic. Don't laugh too much, I did a quick/crappy weld with flux wire just to get it together & rideable, and hit it with some rustoleum to make any cracks easier to find. So far, it's holding together though.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7255/frame017xz9.jpg

[lucky13]

I am thinking about building something like this. I will make a spare or two.

I will set aside deposit money. :bigthumb:

[BrettM]

Your headtube angle may be the only mtb with a steeper angle than mine? What is that? It looks like 80 degrees.

Look for a Zebdi. Sure they are made to break but I have a friend who has had good luck with welding them up.

[MegamoMidwest]

maybe breaching negative angles if you threw on a 400mm?

[Pete Gossett]

Your headtube angle may be the only mtb with a steeper angle than mine? What is that? It looks like 80 degrees.

Look for a Zebdi. Sure they are made to break but I have a friend who has had good luck with welding them up.


Mine? It's 74deg. Just steep enough. :p

[BrettM]

74 with that fork or 74 with a rigid fork? It just looks way steep in that picture. I have a frame thats 75 so I'm into that, but it just looks steep.

[lucky13]

Do you have something rideable with those angles Brett? I'd like to feel what that's like. We could meet up when I finally get around to visiting the island or I could meet you up at crankworks.

[WhiteRavenKS]

I am thinking about building something like this. I will make a spare or two.


i'd be very excited to see what you have in mind. very very excited.

[BrettM]

I can't remember my exact angles and measurements off hand but my first Peyto trials bike is now my street bike. It has a 75 head tube with a rigid, 74 or 73 seat tube angle, 15.5ish stays but a wb that is only around 1010. Its rideable all the time. I had it in Whistler a couple years ago at the park. I was in love with a Zebdi at the time and just tweaked those angles and things to come up with that.

[Pete Gossett]

Yeah, mine is 74deg with the 80mm Manitou SXR fork that's pictured. 70deg seat tube angle, 15.75" chainstays, center-to-center actual top tube length is 22.5", +5mm BB height. Wheelbase is right at 1020mm.

[lucky13]

I can't remember my exact angles and measurements off hand but my first Peyto trials bike is now my street bike. It has a 75 head tube with a rigid, 74 or 73 seat tube angle, 15.5ish stays but a wb that is only around 1010. Its rideable all the time. I had it in Whistler a couple years ago at the park. I was in love with a Zebdi at the time and just tweaked those angles and things to come up with that.

Yea, I remember 'looking' at that but I didn't want to interupt your session. That and I was all about my uberlong new stock.

[darkside]

I am thinking about building something like this. I will make a spare or two.
i'd be very excited to see what you have in mind. very very excited.

:werd:

Zebdi-ish bike + FTW skills = SOLID GOLD.

[lucky13]

bling bling

[tybikes]

I'm having Marino make up a frame for me as we speak. Similar geometry to the old ashton and zebdi but with some more modern twists. 383, +20, 1045-1050 wheelbase, seat tube, 71* head tube. I'm not crazy about steel, but for $100 bucks or so, you can't find a better way to try out some new geometry.

FTW, I'm still interested in getting a custom streety type frame like we chatted about last fall, but I want to fine tune the geo before I drop $$ on getting an alu or ti frame made up.

[lucky13]

FTW > Marino

Did I even have to type this?

[tybikes]

FTW, I'm still interested in getting a custom streety type frame like we chatted about last fall, but I want to fine tune the geo before I drop $$ on getting an alu or ti frame made up.

Get to try the geometry, which I may or may not like, without dropping several hundred on a frame, and give some business to someone who's trying to help improve trials. Seems win-win.

[lucky13]

Oh for sure,.. not dissin on your ride. Prototyping is great.

[Muerto]

Something like this maybe:

http://www.happypics.zapto.org/albums/userpics/10036/normal_svartvithoj.JPG


:dunno:

[lucky13]

Yup, but I'd still go full disc. It rains where I live and I don't want my "fun" bike to have "fun" grinding needs.

That thing is nice,.. I did look at the Tarty offerings of Basebikes. Pretty cheap stuff too.

[steve_v]

The Base looks nice, especially for the price. I just wish the wb was longer, I'd snap one right up... I still may anyway though

[Muerto]

It really is short, I'm 183cm = 6ft and I feel kind of cramped on it with a 90mm stem.

But if you're a bit shorter or just like short flickable bikes it is worth a look imho!

[DanBowhers]

V brakes for old school bikes or bust.

That base looks fun, never did understand the bashplate thing on stocks though...then again i dont have a bashring right now.

[lucky13]

Except that v-brakes suck in the rain.

[WhiteRavenKS]

Except that v-brakes suck in the rain.


pads are what suck in wet... not the brakes they are mounted in.

[DanBowhers]

My bike has two brakes...one is a V, one is a mechanical disc and the V feels so much better its outrageous.

[Matt]

My bike has two brakes...one is a V, one is a mechanical disc and the V feels so much better its outrageous.
Yeah, but in my opinion anything mechanical feels like poo compared to hydraulic. It's all I'll run (and I prefer the disc variety)

[tybikes]

It all depends on how well you set up the housing, etc. Most people just cut a length of housing that looks alright and thats it. Somehow I've managed to do it right on my bike and now I'm scared cause I've never felt a cable brake feel this good.

[perkins]

It all depends on how well you set up the housing, etc. Most people just cut a length of housing that looks alright and thats it. Somehow I've managed to do it right on my bike and now I'm scared cause I've never felt a cable brake feel this good.

Trevor has had the best feeling brakes for years... I wish I could get mine as dialed as his.

[DanBowhers]

XTR lever + LX brake + Machined/slight grind on rim + stock pads (With aluminum backing) + Odyssey Linear cable= Pure sex

[smudge]

It all depends on how well you set up the housing, etc. Most people just cut a length of housing that looks alright and thats it. Somehow I've managed to do it right on my bike and now I'm scared cause I've never felt a cable brake feel this good.

Agreed. I used to spend way too much time messing with the cable setup when I'd install a v brake. It was worth it.

[lucky13]

pads are what suck in wet... not the brakes they are mounted in.

:luke:

[MegamoMidwest]

It all depends on how well you set up the housing, etc. Most people just cut a length of housing that looks alright and thats it. Somehow I've managed to do it right on my bike and now I'm scared cause I've never felt a cable brake feel this good.

what cables/housing are you running? full length, I assume?

[David Weyman]

FTW > Marino

Did I even have to type this?
No,
If ya got the $$$$.

No offense to anyone, but....

What is FTW costing these days? $950?
I spent $80 on my Marino frame with the geometry I chose...it weighs under 5 lbs for an 1110mm wb frame made outa steel; oh yeah if it cracks, I'll get it welded that same day and ride it later. When/if I sell it, it'll sell for around $80.....Hmmmm
I've had a Koxx LB $600 new, sold 4 $300
Crescent, $700 new sold for $350
Echo Urban, who the fuck cares!
BT Ninja, $600, for sale now as a complete......
and some others.

My Marinobike is my favorite bike so far....grand total..........$550.
I don't use Chris King parts anymore either. Saves $$$ No difference!
Now I ride more and worry less about my bike and have a lot more fun

I would love a custom frame from Frank, seriously, but I don't have $1000 for a frame, oh well. Frank does nice work, I have a Spooky Metalhead and love it. I'm sure he deserves every cent he charges.

[tybikes]

what cables/housing are you running? full length, I assume?

Yep, full length. Took the time to cut the housing so that it flexes minimally when you pull the lever. Sometimes takes a few tries to get it right, but it makes a world of difference. Grinding the cut ends of the housing so that they fit square against the inside of the ferrule (sp?) reduces flex. And of course zip ties where needed.

XTR levers are a must-have. For vees, I always found it useful to set them up so the noodle was 90* when the lever is pulled and the arms were just slightly out of parallel. Its been years since i've had vees though...

[MegamoMidwest]

oh, I was talking brands...

I'm wondering if it's worth dropping dinero on flack jackets/nokian/whatever fancypants cables.

Dan - are those Odyssey cables better than the mountain bike stuff?

[tybikes]

I've never used the super high end housing/cables. I just get xtr/dura ace housing and the standard shimano cables.

[DanBowhers]

The Odyssey stuff rules for a few reasons.

1 it doesnt kink and in my experience has lasted a lot longer.

2 it doesnt compress.

3 its not expensive (unlike other "high end cables" its like 10 bucks a brake for cable and housing, not too shabby.

They also come in a fair amount of colors.

[MegamoMidwest]

sounds just what I'm looking for.

$80 cables :ugh: no thanks.

[Stikman]

I roll deep on bog standard cables, secondhand XTR lever and some Deore callipers. Everyone who squeezes my lever cannot believe how smooth it is.

It comes down to grinding the ends of the cable (full length) as flat as possible, opening the ends of the cable with a sharpened spoke and then the usual bull setting up your pads. Simon (SLB on here) swears by running the pads without the alignment washer things for a stiff brake, but I like a little squidge if you know what I mean??

My brake rules wet or dry with a med grind and rock blues.

Back on topic:

Keep it Ol' Skool fool ;)

[tybikes]

It comes down to grinding the ends of the cable (full length) as flat as possible, opening the ends of the cable with a sharpened spoke and then the usual bull setting up your pads. Simon (SLB on here) swears by running the pads without the alignment washer things for a stiff brake, but I like a little squidge if you know what I mean??

Pretty much spot on to how I deal with setting up cables (and vees when I used to use them). For cable discs, I preload the caliper ever so slightly so that I get a snappy lever return as well. Eliminates that slight lag you normally get due to the lever having to tension the cable before the brake begins to activate. Hope that made sense...

[MegamoMidwest]

totally makes sense and should be mandatory procedure for anyone working with cable. generous with the tri-flow too.

although you can barrel adjust the lever or caliper to do the same thing as caliper preload, no?

[WhiteRavenKS]

Pretty much spot on to how I deal with setting up cables (and vees when I used to use them). For cable discs, I preload the caliper ever so slightly so that I get a snappy lever return as well. Eliminates that slight lag you normally get due to the lever having to tension the cable before the brake begins to activate. Hope that made sense...

i know so many people who are proficient mechanics who have no clue about this trick... and are blown away when i show them... and who feel stupid for never doing it themselves earlier.

[Stikman]

I thought that was just standard practice?? It's also helpful to get the lever arm hitting the disc when it's at 90 degrees if that makes sense??

I roll deep with Rock n Roll Cable magic. Sliiiiiipery goodness.

[tybikes]

Barrel adjuster can do the same trick, but the further out you crank the adjuster, the more likely it is to flex. I put the barrel adjuster all the way in and then back it out about 2 threads, then do the aforementioned preload at the caliper. Seems to feel better.

[lucky13]

Damn, when did this become a brake tech thread?

Anybody have other ideas about full rigid mtb with gears that can kill some logs and rocks in the woods?

[Patrick]

pffft... find a used Norco Team Trials and go to town

[DanBowhers]

For geometry as specific as you want just get the guy to weld you up a steel one off for 100 bucks. You will be very happy you did.

[lucky13]

Yea, I guess I could just get some disc tabs and a stay spanner welded on a norco.

[BrettM]

http://www.norco.com/images/2008_bikes/enlarged/manifesto_white.jpg

The new frames from Norco already have that covered.

[rush]

Marino is just fine. The dude has proven himself reliable.

[Mehukatti]

My Manifesto:
http://mtbnews.net/photos/originals/mtbnews121.jpg

Few changes since the pic was taken.. switched to HS33 on rear with Trialtech carbon booster, took a spacer off below the stem, etc. I like it how it rides, very nice for old skoolish street trials, but it's still noticeably longer than e.g. Zebdi, so one doesn't feel cramped on it. The wheelbase is about 1050mm with the 420mm (suspension corrected) On-One Superlight fork. Slight BB drop as it's designed for 440mm fork, but I think it brings a bit stability to manuals etc.

[lucky13]

That's cool.

I was out on my STP today, it's still fun, but definately more of a mtb with piggy parts on it. Kinda heavy for trials manuevers...