shoulder pain = change bars?

[Bryan]

I've had some issues with my left shoulder. It was the worst last fall, and I thought it had cleared up completely, but it's back now in full force. Right now I can barely lift the arm itself up to shoulder height, and the pain radiates so the left hand feels very weak (typing with right hand only).

I went to the doctor and they took xrays. According to them it's not impingement or bursitis. They think it's just a tendonitis issue. I did two months of PT that did basically nothing.

The worst pain seems to be as a result of lifting something in front... It will feel fine until the hand is about level with my face... then there's a clicking noise/sensation and it gives a burst of pain.

Anyways, I am wondering if maybe this has something to do with running really flat bars (Simtra, and before that the Tryall Gen 2). I hate the feeling of anything with a sweep (hands slip in towards the stem), but I could get used to it if it meant that my shoulder wouldn't be like this.


Andy - I know you dealt with a similar problem. What did you do to fix it? Or do you still have the pain?

Thanks!

[bklmrkt91]

hmmmm...just curious how old are you? my dads shoulder hurts and it hasnt recovered yet(two months) he doesnt even ride or anything and it still hasnt recovered. you should let it sit for a while. i dont think the bars really have too much to do with it but i could be wrong. im no doctor

good luck

[Matt]

hmmmm...just curious how old are you? my dads shoulder hurts and it hasnt recovered yet(two months) he doesnt even ride or anything and it still hasnt recovered. you should let it sit for a while. i dont think the bars really have too much to do with it but i could be wrong. im no doctor

good luck
What in the world would make you think that they suffer the same ailment?

[Bryan]

I'm 20. I've let it rest for an extended period before. That didn't do anything really except make me mad because I couldn't ride. It didn't get better when I rested it.

I was thinking a little upsweep could get the scapula to rotate upwards more? :dunno: the pt did say that my scapula wasn't really rotating upwards like it's supposed to.

[Matt]

I have a bad left shoulder (though nothing like yours) and it's a very fine line for me between not working it out enough and working it out too much. If I don't work it out enough, PAIN. If I work it out too much, PAIN.

Maybe you're riding too much, working out too much, or not enough?

[brian_E]

go to the doctor..

after years of wrist pain stemming from snapping it in half.. a doctor told me that i need to keep it in a straight plain with my arm when riding.. so i adjusted my brake lever on that side so it wasn't starting bent.. and pain went away.. for the most part..

point is go to an ortho.. even better go to an ortho who does sports injuries.. they'll at least be able to give you some insight that may help you figure out what adjustment you need to make..

[mikeschiavone]

Do you know how you injured it originally? Was it over time? One certain move?

If it was injured outside of the sport (moving something at a warehouse you work at for example) then maybe you have to put the bike off to the side for a few weeks.

Like Brian Yizertskizertskisyertz said, go to a Sports Ortho. Show them a picture of how you typically hold the bar, how you move your shoulder, all that jazz. Don't expect them to heal you, but rather to collaborate with you on getting it better.

I forgot to mention that I too had shoulder problems, and still do. Simple push-ups, with a wider stance, is helping a little bit. That popping is still there, but there's no more pain.

[DGrabiec]

I use to have a really sharp pain in my left shoulder as I rode, kinda like how you described but maybe not quite as bad. But I was riding with some bars that were 27" wide and felt that my shoulders weren't entirely square with the bars so I opted for some wider Zoo bars. After the new bars and a little change to my riding technique the pain started to go away. It only tends to hurt when I do a whole session doing taps.

So basically what I did though was I found the most comfortable distance between my hands when I did pushups and found some bars based on that.

Hope you get this sorted out!

[Bryan]

Yeah I guess I'll just keep going to different doctors until somebody tells me something that helps.

I think I hurt it cinching down straps on my bike case in July. I didn't ride for a few weeks after that, and the shoulder healed within 2-3 days, but I woke up in the middle of the night two weeks later because the shoulder hurt so bad. :dunno:

[siraerich1]

What kind of tendonitis did they say it was? My shoulder hurt real bad when I was riding every day for two weeks and also made it real weak when I lifted things and had a dull ache when I typed. My PT said it was bicep tendonitis and she gave me a really good thing to help with the pain and get rid of it fast-
Take an ice cube and hold it with a paper towel. Next find above youre bicep on the shoulder "ball"on the front of it (it will be directly in line with the top of your bicep muscle). There should be a sore spot there when you push with your fingers, you can take the ice cube and rub across that tendon (cross friction) for about five minutes 2-3 times a day. This might help you but I thought that I would just mention it, helps me a bunch!!

[mxeddiejo]

Take the advice of several of the above posts and see an ortho. You've described some of the symptoms associated with rotator cuff/ labrum tears. X-rays won't show it... and MRI's often miss slap tears. Most orthos should be able to perform clinical tests during a single visit and tell you whether they suspect a bigger problem. You're young so arthritic changes shouldn't be an issue, which can often cause tears when combined with some impact or overexertion.

The orthos I work with have been 100% in diagnosing tears with only clinical tests (range of motion, etc). Many of those times, the initial treatment docs and MRI results suggested that there wasn't a tear.

[stpatr3k]

I had similar pain and loss of strength in my left arm. Don't know if its related.

I felt there was no need for it to have checked. But it happened whenever I rode, after a few minutes I lost strength in my left arm basically the muscles that moved the elbow.

Since it was undiagnosed I couldn't say if fixing my bar sweep or changing my diet worked since I read somewhere (couldn't remember how I came with up this or what I was smoking) that it could be because I had high bloodsugar level or it could be nothing.

But yours might be a tear like mentioned above.

[greyghost]

post some pics on your bike......then we can say if bars will help or not

Also....unless you hit the 1 in a million, the docs aren't going to help too much on that one, as surgery is their only option.

Your shoulder's probably out of alignment, which could lead to a host of other things (tendonitis, tears, inflammation, etc.), which makes some muscles work harder than others.

Rotator cuff issues are typical, because most people have an anterior humerous in relation to the scapula. Trials riders will have this more often, because they spend all the time in a push up position with their arms.

[bklmrkt91]

What in the world would make you think that they suffer the same ailment?

i havent said that they have the same "ailment" at all...

[MIKE1968]

To this day if I sleep on my left side i'll be fucked for a long time. Just time and a bit of "working out" i guess, but i do it in heavy lifting not at the gym. Staying healthy and no alcohol, plenty of riding, feels good these days.

[Bryan]

post some pics on your bike......then we can say if bars will help or not.
Sure. What angles/situations would be most helpful? Just trackstanding?

I'm beginning to doubt that it's a problem with my rotator cuff. I have been diligent about stretching the internal rotators and strengthening the external rotators in the past months. There isn't really pain back there any more (other than radiating pain)

Other than riding and walking, the pain seems to come from lifting in front against resistance. Also, I found out that stretching biceps hurts it. Maybe one of its heads is damaged? What would I do to correct an imbalance in that case?

I'm going to see another doctor on Friday. Whee. Mostly to get referred to an ortho though (the clinic won't let me go straight to one)

[va_tick]

I had the exact same problem you describe, it came about when I was riding a BT 6.0 short with some generic handlebars. They were wide for mtb bars but not "trials" wide. I ended up switching my stem and bars creating a wider stance with the bars and the longer stem stretched things out. I cant rember whe nthe pain left but its been gone. It was effecting even how i picked up the smallest objects but only when I lifted them in front of me up with my shoulders...just like your describing.

Also a year or so ago I developed tennis elbow shortly after i switched to the ole yourself replica bars. To this day I swear it developed b/c of those bars and the particular setup I was running.

Now I ride a Coust with the try-all punching bars and a 12ox25 stem and I've been pain free so far(knock on wood). I would play around with your lever/bar/stem/ and even your riding style until you find some comfort zone, however, it doesnt matter until you heal whats already injured.

[JohnnyO]

I have a similar problem with my left shoulder. It has been bad for almost a year. I never really got a good diagnosis even from orthopeadic surgeon or MRIs. It seemed to improve with time in the gym and physio and over summer it has barely been noticable. Unfortunately now that the weather is cooling down the aches are coming back and I am getting the sleepless nights back.

I have found that my riding style has completely changed, especially my mindset. When I go out riding I am trying smaller, trickier stuff rather than big moves, simply because I don't have the strength. This was, and still sometimes is, really frustrating but hey, it might mean I ride for longer so I have to do it. I find that if I drop my shoulder blades down and inwards I am stronger and get less pain (this feels gammy but is definitely worth persevering with). I also got a swiss ball. one of the best stretches I have learned is to lay on your back with the ball on supporting your upper back and hold your arms out parralel to the floor with your elbows bent 90degrees up and your palms facing up. gently ease your arms back so that it stretches across your chest.

Unfortunately it seems to be one of those things that is with you for a long time and you have to make some changes to deal with it. Let me know if you find a miracle cure!

[MultiRider]

Try avoiding sleeping with any pressure on that shoulder. I broke my collarbone a couple years ago and any time I sleep on that side, it aches for days. Took me a little while to make the connection because it didn't particularly hurt the next morning, just ached all the time.

[kobrakai]

Also a year or so ago I developed tennis elbow shortly after i switched to the ole yourself replica bars. To this day I swear it developed b/c of those bars and the particular setup I was running.

i also had a major tennis elbow problem with yourself replica bars. went away as soon as i changed them.

[Bryan]

Changed bars, didn't help

Doc says acromial entrapment. Greyghost is there anything you'd recommend? Naturally he recommended cortisone shots, and if those fail, surgery :hsugh:

[va_tick]

Changed bars, didn't help

Doc says acromial entrapment. Greyghost is there anything you'd recommend? Naturally he recommended cortisone shots, and if those fail, surgery :hsugh:

you have to let the intial injury heel first before you test whether new bars helped :sadwavey:

[trials-online]

^that would require brian to stop riding........

which is like telling a crack head you have to stop smoking crack for a while before you can successfully smoke crack again

[Bryan]

:rofl: truth

[MIKE1968]

you are young, just ride through it and ignore the pain.


completely unrelated, but I don't remember where I got this bruise on my side near my hip bone. It just gets worse, today i touched it and it feels like someone put an implant in my skin :rofl: . Like a rock hard thing in my body, no idea where I got the bruise, it is huge.


Maybe i should change my tryall bars.

[Bryan]

you are young, just ride through it and ignore the pain.

Tried that :wtc:

Always random bruises.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/imgWrapper.aspx?img=/hb/HB409E03SIL__254.jpg&type=3

?

[MIKE1968]

my only option was surgery, think i just ended up not riding enough and it healed over time without riding... :/

[Bryan]

gonna go see another place that did some research on athletic shoulder injuries
first appt I could get with anyone was april 9. can't even see anyone for the pain. only thing that doesn't hurt is lying on my face with my hand on the back of my head :rofl:

no self-medication either because summer jobs test

probably 2 months minimum no riding. nothing remotely physical. nothing to do :wtc:

[Matt]

Bryan, we screen all employees for drugs (randomly and pre-employment) and here's how it works: You go in and tell them any prescription drugs you're on and answer some other basic questions. You then take the test and they will always call YOU first giving you a chance to explain, rather than the employer. Just give them your cell phone and they'll make a VERY good effort to get a hold of you.

Good luck, shoulders are a bitch :\

Matt

[ShaunAR]

$(*)^*)#(%^)%!!!!!! I wrote a long post then accidentally deleted it so this is a bit shorter and doesnt sound nearly as good, im tired!

so ive read the whole post and im a little unsure, what scans have you had? have you had an MRI, CT, Ultrasound or just xray. xray wont pick up any soft tissue (muscle, tendon, cartilage etc)

second, have you been injured before the current event? I know you mentioned a fall, was that the first time? have you dislocated it before now? or subluxed it? Stretching the internal rotators and strengthening the external rotators isnt particularly regular after dislocation, in fact you usually do the opposite, if you have injured it already, what position where you in? did you dislocate it backwards (as in the head of the humerus moved backwards relative to the scapula)?

third, impingement, tendonitis (or tendonopathy as it is currently known) and bursitis are very similar in their management and one can lead to the other, dont get too bogged down in which one you have.

fourth, has the possibility of a labrum (cartilage ring around the head of your glenohumeral joint) lesion been explored? Someone mentioned a SLAP (Superior Labrum, Anterior, Posterior) lesion or maybe a Bankart lesion? these can be hard to test for, however, some signs suggest that it might be the case. Your medical team may have ruled this out already and from the information provided it is just as likely to be tendonopathy/impingement/instability but it is definitely worth considering/asking about. Oh and a labral tear would contribute to, not rule out, the other injures just mentioned.

In short very difficult to say anything too poignant without seeing you but def consider the possibility of labral damage and keep up your exercises!

[ShaunAR]

also, what are you talking about when you say biceps stretch? its a bit of a weird one to isolate, what action are you talking about?

[Bryan]

Yeah so far I have only seen the free doctors at the University. They did X-Rays. Hopefully this other place will be better. They should be since apparently that is where the UM athletes are seen for injuries. The free U doctors let a friend of mine walk around on a broken tibia for two months claiming it was a 'muscle cramp' :hsugh:

[tomacropod]

Shaun's an expert.

:wavey: Shaun

- Joel

[beastoftheeast]

nothing to do :wtc:

need some more n64 games from me? :greddy:. good luck with the shoulder.

[joash]

Out of curiosity... quite a few people in this thread have said they've had left shoulder injuries.. Just wondering if most of these people also ride left foot forward??

(I know this is the case for me)

In terms of handlebar/stem setup. May I make a few comments from a mechanical perspective??:

1. The wider they are, the less 'force' required by your hand to applying a twisting 'moment' about the stem. Meaning that it is in effect easier for you to control/move your own body mass relative to the bike or vice versa (as this is essentially what you do alot with the bars).

2. Having said that, bars too wide will just be uncomfortable, as well as requiring more strength/force in other areas.. E.g. compare doing pushups with your hands at shoulder width, and with them a long way apart. Considering this replicates what you do with your handlebars alot (except only in one direction), it's a reasonable indication of how handlebar width will affect you.

3. Try playing with the stem length. Depending on what movements are agrivating your shoulder, a shorter/longer stem may have a big impact. A shorter stem will result in higher stresses around the front of your shoulders when weighting the front wheel (e.g. doing endos, gapping to front etc).

Again, imagine having a really long stem (say 1 metre, hypothetically of course), guess how hard you'd have to push down on the end of it to make the rear wheel come up..... not very.
Same principle, the longer your stem, the less force required to apply the torque/moment to lift the rear wheel.

Having said this, a shorter stem will having you stretching less to get your weight over the back wheel. Which may be beneficial to you.

Hope this makes some sense. Sorry about all my engineering jargon. I just find it easier to understand what may and may not help by trying to visualise exactly what forces you apply to the bike to do what... and then what this requires of your body.

On another note...
I'm pretty sure my shoulder injury wasn't as severe as yours. However, i found simple strengthening exercises (trying to emulate the actions that hurt it when riding, but with much less force), and adequate warming up before riding made a world of difference.

If i didn't warm up my shoulder (stretches and just moving it through all ranges of motion while applying slight/increasing resistive forces to my left arm using my right hand) i could count on my shoulder being sore for the next few days. However, if I took the time to warm up properly, my shoulder would always be noticeably better.

You'll probably find that doctors (GP's anyhow) may not be of great assistance. They tend to neglect alot of the biomechanics of these kind of things. It just seems to be the way they think. All respect to them, they have ALOT facts packed away in their heads, but they often overlook alot of logic. (Well in my experience anyhow.. which may be be bugger-all compared to others).
I've talked to several physiotherapists and they seem to be good at trying to work out what's causing the injury, then how to fix/avoid that.

That's just my two-bob's worth... sorry for crappin on so long. (bit bored at work.. hehe)

[Bryan]

"Tear of the posterior of the labrum with large cyst in the spinoglenoid notch. There is edema in the infraspinatus muscle likely from nerve impingement."

Surgery :sadwavey:

[darkside]

Join the Cripple Club!

:h5:

Get fixed for OTN Dayz.

:naughty:

[MIKE1968]

Just ride through it, look at cardiel

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1447922321


my fav series asides from epicly latered, thats like #14 or 15 - watch the whole thing if you want...i highly suggest it.

[Bryan]

Join the Cripple Club!

:h5:

Get fixed for OTN Dayz.

:naughty:
:Wavey: It will be fixed by OTN dayz...
2009

Trieed to ride through the pain... passed out