NATS 2007 - Overall Results

[MikeTheBike]

Sorry it took so long to publish.

http://www.natrials.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=2

[aki]

Hey boo boo! :bigthumb:

[J Trials 31]

Nice work, Mike! Congratulations to Brian!

[darkside]

It think Brian should be Yogi and Tom can be Boo Boo.

[KeepRollin]

It think Brian should be Yogi and Tom can be Boo Boo.

Want to lose another toe? :momaru:

Seeing as I never got higher than 4th or something, more people need to go to comps....

[mikeyr89]

Wow that's the sweetest thing I've ever seen! I won by defult but still.... that's awesome! That made me even happier than the 93% I got on my first college paper today! Damn.... this is a good day!

Thanks for everything Mike!

[THEDEMOLITIONMAN]

times have sure changed, a total of 6 riders..wow




THEDMAN

[muddyfox]

:joshers:

[brian_E]

i hate your face.. back up..

DMIZZLES i think 6 is the top 6.. not the total peeps.. but times have still changed..

i rule.. my new signature frame will be AMERICAN use only though.. so don't try and take it to europe cuz you'll git owned..

[MIKE1968]

i hate your face.. back up..

DMIZZLES i think 6 is the top 6.. not the total peeps.. but times have still changed..

i rule.. my new signature frame will be AMERICAN use only though.. so don't try and take it to europe cuz you'll git owned..

someone from europe said you looked good riding in worlds but would always fall apart right at the end of the section. Biggest compliment to a US trials rider in years.

[THEDEMOLITIONMAN]

someone from europe said you looked good riding in worlds but would always fall apart right at the end of the section. Biggest compliment to a US trials rider in years.


byizzie just needs some of that focus factor shit, advertised on TV and he'll be in the top 3 for the worlds..



THEDMAN

[darkside]

Probably just needs some damn hair.

When was the last time you saw a bald guy on the podium?

[brian_E]

Probably just needs some damn hair.

When was the last time you saw a bald guy on the podium?

if i was gey i'd kiss you that's so funny you diknose toe cripple..

i don't even want to git into my performance at worlds.. i'm just starting to git over my mental incompatent ass.. but i do take that shit as a compliment andy..

[MIKE1968]

I thought so too...he said you rode really well and he was surprized.

[johnglazer]

Congrats!


Watch out next year, mikey!

[va_tick]

wow.....

[MikeTheBike]

DMIZZLES i think 6 is the top 6.. not the total peeps.. but times have still changed..

Nope. Those are the only people who came to at least three events. Sad, I know. I've been racking my brain to try to figure out how to fix this but I just don't know. I do have some changes in the works for 2008 so we'll see if I can make a difference.

[KeepRollin]

Nope. Those are the only people who came to at least three events. Sad, I know. I've been racking my brain to try to figure out how to fix this but I just don't know. I do have some changes in the works for 2008 so we'll see if I can make a difference.

One Idea:
Prizes/Money for people who place in overall rankings

[va_tick]

It will take more than one person in order to have a legit trials series and bring more riders,etc. in.

This is somthing that needs "somthing" like a small board with a representative from each district(SE,SW...etc). One or two people running somthing so large as to have the name North American Trials Series is a sure fire way to eliminate any significant trials series here.

There needs to be simple organization focused around a group of willing members. Also,maybe having riders pay a member fee would not only help garuntee a small percentage of turnout to the event but can also go into a fund to help promote NATS event around the U.S and get the sport out there and bring in more riders, maybe some of the proceeds from rider registration can be put into a fund that would allow for a legitimate series finale in a location like Vegas or somthing with indoor outdoor sections like UCI does..........again its all about organization and of course sponsorhip, but you would be surprised what you can get if you just ask, even for such a small sport like ours..

I'm sure there are alot of doubters, but I know first hand that we can have a much higher level of competition if its promoted and organized correctly

As I said, most of us all have "real" job and families to attend to so in order to improve on what we have it will take small junks of organized effort from a large amount of people instead of large amounts of effort from a small amount of people.

And thats my rant on that whole thing......yay!!

Ryan

[KeepRollin]

I think the idea of having a board is a good one. Discussing it on a forum is all fine and good but there will be people who have opinions but won't have the drive to back them up and do anything and all you have is a stalemate and nothing gets done. If there was a board of people who really wanted to make a difference and are willing to put in the effort there is a better chance something will get done.

[va_tick]

this is very true!

[brian_E]

prizes/money = higher entry fees = lower attendees

unless mike comes through with his pepsi sponsorship..

[va_tick]

prizes/money do not have to equal higher entry fees, I've proven that with the Belle Isle comp. Its about sponsors and promotion to bring spectators and mainly riders at this point.

Entry fees are the least of concerns when it comes to increasiong rider turnout

[Edge]

How much is too much for an entry fee? Is 30.00 too much? I guess you have to consider what you get for your money. My average entry fee for the comps I run is about 25.00 to 30.00. With that you get a T-shirt, Swag, Prizes to the top 3 in each category and something to eat that night. I'll also pay out to the top class.

Would you rather pay 30.00 and get all that or pay 5.00 and just get to ride?
Just curious I guess.

[music_maj_34]

How the hell did my name get on that list for sport? 2nd overall? I only went to 4 different events this year and the best I did was 3rd place. I wanted to go to more, but I was a little short of cash this time around.

I wish Texas was a little closer because I'd def be hitting up those comps!

So does this mean "TECHNICALLY" that I can go tell my sponsor that I got 2nd overall for the whole country in NATS? :momaru:

[MikeTheBike]

unless mike comes through with his pepsi sponsorship

Working on it.

Its about sponsors and promotion to bring spectators and mainly riders at this point.

Ryan, thank you for your input but you have to understand that you've only done this for a year or two. I've been running events since 2002. The first year I worked my butt off and got $900 in sponsorship from a local bike shop, Blue Ridge Outfitters and Red Bull. The second year I lost Blue Ridge. The third year I lost Red Bull. Thank heavens for my lbs but they are struggling to expand so my chances for funding are quite low for 2008. I've been trying to find someone else but have yet to find interest. Get back to me in a couple of years and tell me how that sponsorship thing is going for you.

As for the membership idea, I guess now is as good a time as any to divulge that that is exactly what I'm working toward. The plan is to charge an annual membership fee and turn that money into supplies for event organizers - nice supplies with NATS logos and such. The intent being that if someone expresses interest in running their own event, we can ship them a box with everything they need, including insurance. Also, it would pay for NATS Championship awards. Then, if there is any money left over, it would go into a scholarship-type fund to send at least one rider to the Worlds.

The biggest hurdle I have right now is how to deal with the money. I want to be careful to follow all of the IRS rules so that I don't end up owing taxes on the income to the association.

I cannot agree more that this is a lot for one person to do. Especially one person with a 50-60 hour per week job, church responsibilities and a one year old daughter. But, I put it to you all, who will step up to help in a useful, constructive way. Ryan, I am impressed with what you've done at Belle Isle and I welcome any effort you are willing to put into NATS. Other than you, who else is there? Tim has less time than I do. Vaughn might be able to pitch in once he gets Trialsin humming but I'm sure his plate is full right now. Zak and Jon are busy elsewhere. Mike Baia puts all his focus on Trialsworx. In the end, it's me. I'll just keep chugging along and doing my best to make a difference.

[Edge]

What could we in Texas do to help out? This year has gone well and I'm hoping for a better 2008. Would it be possible to run all the Texas events as Nats? We might be able create some cash flow if we add all events to Nats. Just thinking out loud I guess.

[jbinion]

I for one would send money for membership, granted I have little time to ride and even less to attend comps, but that would be a step in the right direction. What $$$ amount did you have in mind?

[David Weyman]

No memberships... $35 entry each event is enough.
Memberships will keep new riders from getting in....at least in my neck of the woods.

[mikeyr89]

First of all, John, I'm getting worried, but you gotta remember eventhough I'm in the winterland up north, I'll still be training!! ;)

How about membership fees that (Say $75-$125 for the sake of argument) gets you to as many comps as you can attend throughout the year, or no membership fee and you pay entry fee of $25 plus like a "guest fee" 5-10 dollars for not having a NATS license, yet you are still ranked with nats or something? That could be all worked out....

What you guys are saying all makes sense, I'm totally for the movement forward and will do as much as I can, just ask!

Ryan, I've got some questions for ya, I'll send you a PM and I think you're definitely on the right track with making the right changes.

Thanks again to Mike for putting in the work through the years, you know it's all greatly aprecited!

Again... I'm another one here to help!!

Mikey

[va_tick]

Working on it.



Ryan, thank you for your input but you have to understand that you've only done this for a year or two. I've been running events since 2002. The first year I worked my butt off and got $900 in sponsorship from a local bike shop, Blue Ridge Outfitters and Red Bull. The second year I lost Blue Ridge. The third year I lost Red Bull. Thank heavens for my lbs but they are struggling to expand so my chances for funding are quite low for 2008. I've been trying to find someone else but have yet to find interest. Get back to me in a couple of years and tell me how that sponsorship thing is going for you.

As for the membership idea, I guess now is as good a time as any to divulge that that is exactly what I'm working toward. The plan is to charge an annual membership fee and turn that money into supplies for event organizers - nice supplies with NATS logos and such. The intent being that if someone expresses interest in running their own event, we can ship them a box with everything they need, including insurance. Also, it would pay for NATS Championship awards. Then, if there is any money left over, it would go into a scholarship-type fund to send at least one rider to the Worlds.

The biggest hurdle I have right now is how to deal with the money. I want to be careful to follow all of the IRS rules so that I don't end up owing taxes on the income to the association.

I cannot agree more that this is a lot for one person to do. Especially one person with a 50-60 hour per week job, church responsibilities and a one year old daughter. But, I put it to you all, who will step up to help in a useful, constructive way. Ryan, I am impressed with what you've done at Belle Isle and I welcome any effort you are willing to put into NATS. Other than you, who else is there? Tim has less time than I do. Vaughn might be able to pitch in once he gets Trialsin humming but I'm sure his plate is full right now. Zak and Jon are busy elsewhere. Mike Baia puts all his focus on Trialsworx. In the end, it's me. I'll just keep chugging along and doing my best to make a difference.

Again, this is ecactly why one person cant "do it" alone. Some people might be better in areas of marketing and obtaining sponsorship where others are better at organizing and section setting or other aspects of the comp. I myself know that I can find enough sponsorship in the Richmond area for several years to come...I just know I have that ability in this area.:greddy:

None the less I could have put the same caliber event on at belle isle with $0 off sponsor money. In fact I had enough sponsor money left over that I bought a nice dinner for all those who stayed in Richmond.....so I guess money managment is another area where a person might excell better than another????

I'm simply throwing ideas out there...I'm not cutting at all on what you've done, your stamina is somthing to be admired!!! As you have stated you've been doing this for years but sometimes people can get tunnel vision and not see that their are different avenues and solutions..I.E braodening the responsibilities to multiple people and utilizing each persons best asset to focus on a particular segment of the series and trying different organizational schemes.

Again, this is all speculation.......I myself dont even know what time I can devote in the future b/c I decided to change majors and add another few years of class by going into pharmacy school.

Maybe we can set a time for those seriously interested around the country and have a private disscusion forum or confrence call and hash some things out somtime before the next season gets under way??????

Were not going to have an explosion in one season this may take a few years to build into what it was in the late 90's???

Again, these are just suggestions and as you stated, can we even find enough people to really put forth the effort.............hopefully things will improve..

As with all grassroots sport even the competitors themselves will have to play an active role....unfortunately many of the competitors at all levels feel they shouldnt have to do anything but show up and ride.....well we've seen where that attitude has take this sport here in the U.S. Look at Ot Pi for example.......

And I'm spent on this topic for now.............

Ryan

[templarbond]

Michael Friddell still rocks the most.
I'm already looking forward to next year, maybe I'll attend three events and be in with a shot at a podium.

[David Weyman]

or no membership fee and you pay entry fee of $25 plus like a "guest fee" 5 dollars for not having a NATS license, yet you are still ranked with nats or something? That could be all worked out....

:Sonic:

[MikeTheBike]

Actually, I was thinking along the lines of $20 annual NATS membership that is completely voluntary. If you do subscribe, you will be issued a card that will get you $5 off of the entry fee at any NATS event. That way, going to just four events would make your membership worth it. Also, this prevents non-members from being discouraged from attending the events and doesn't require the event directors to pay NATS to run an event.

Ryan, all of your points are good ones. I completely agree that tunnel vision is a dangerous thing and I welcome any other perspectives. Anyone willing to back up their perspective with action, effort and involvement, I would kiss them square on the forehead. B^D I hope that's not a discouragement!

Jeff, I'm not sure making all of the Texas events NATS events is a good idea because that would concentrate too much of the series in one area. I prefer not to have two events closer than about 500 miles (though Big Bear Lake threw that out the past couple of years). This helps to spread the events around the country so that more people can attend. Of course, the other side of this is that anyone who wants to attend the minimum of three events to get points has to travel quite far.

I have kicked around the idea of establishing NATS "regions" of North America to encourage regional points series that feed a single NATS Final event every year. However, I think this might be premature since your area is the only one currently doing multiple events.

[Edge]

There's a lot to think about. We could do all events as NATS but only a couple in each area for points and over alls. The only reason I say have all of them as NATS is to generate more monies to put back into our system.

We could put 30% from all comps into a fund for a series final pay out to the top class. That might encourage more people to travel around to collect as many points as possible. When it all comes down to it, it's the person who attends the most comps that wins, usually.

Let's just keep throwing out ideas until we find what we, you, all of us are looking for. I think the first thing to do would be to form some sort of comittee to establish things and get the ball rolling.

[va_tick]

There's a lot to think about. We could do all events as NATS but only a couple in each area for points and over alls. The only reason I say have all of them as NATS is to generate more monies to put back into our system.

We could put 30% from all comps into a fund for a series final pay out to the top class. That might encourage more people to travel around to collect as many points as possible. When it all comes down to it, it's the person who attends the most comps that wins, usually.

Let's just keep throwing out ideas until we find what we, you, all of us are looking for. I think the first thing to do would be to form some sort of comittee to establish things and get the ball rolling.

Agreed with even a small committe just to get the ball rolling and then from there the committee could progres into to somthing more concrete.

With the sport so small I dont think we should be picky(sorry for the poor choice of words?) about wether or not an event is a certain distance from another...somthing is better than nothing...you need to have strength at the core first then you can brach further out..... maybe having more "micro" series at a local level is what the sport needs right now............IMO.

Also, I think having money go to a large and well promoted final event such as those found in the UCI series would be more beneficial(sp?) than just given money to the top riders at the end.

Again, for this stuff to really take course it will not happen over night and again if we cant get the "dedicated riders" to participate in the organization it will surely fail.......IMO....?

[MikeTheBike]

I'm a bit reluctant to ask the event directors to give money back to NATS. There's so little money to be made putting on an event and, in fact, most people go into the hole. If we ask them to divert some of that money back to NATS then they'll probably just run a non-NATS, standalone event. There's really little or no incentive currently to make an event part of NATS, other than name recognition. As I'm afraid Rudy in Duluth, MN, found out the hard way, it sure doesn't mean more attendence. Maybe one day it will.

Another thing has always bothered me about national events and you even said it: "When it all comes down to it, it's the person who attends the most comps that wins, usually." This is not fair. Of the other rules changes I'm making to NATS for 2008, I'm also going to change them such that you only earn points for your best three scores, inline with the minimum of three events for points. This encourages people to attend at least three events, thereby earning points, but it also encourages them to attend more events in hopes of improving their overall position.

[Edge]

Also, I think having money go to a large and well promoted final event such as those found in the UCI series would be more beneficial(sp?) than just given money to the top riders at the end.

Again, for this stuff to really take course it will not happen over night and again if we cant get the "dedicated riders" to participate in the organization it will surely fail.......IMO....?

I really think that we need to entice the riders to go to as many events as possible. A big pay out at the end might do that but we would have to spread it out through the categories.

How many events go on in a years time? I know we had 6 in the southwest this year. 30% from each comp would equal around 120.00 dollars with an average rider turnout of 12. 720.00 total from here. If we get 2000.00 total for a final pay out we might could get people to travel around a little more.

[Edge]

I'm a bit reluctant to ask the event directors to give money back to NATS. There's so little money to be made putting on an event and, in fact, most people go into the hole. If we ask them to divert some of that money back to NATS then they'll probably just run a non-NATS, standalone event. There's really little or no incentive currently to make an event part of NATS, other than name recognition. As I'm afraid Rudy in Duluth, MN, found out the hard way, it sure doesn't mean more attendence. Maybe one day it will.

Another thing has always bothered me about national events and you even said it: "When it all comes down to it, it's the person who attends the most comps that wins, usually." This is not fair. Of the other rules changes I'm making to NATS for 2008, I'm also going to change them such that you only earn points for your best three scores, inline with the minimum of three events for points. This encourages people to attend at least three events, thereby earning points, but it also encourages them to attend more events in hopes of improving their overall position.

I guess the main thing is to find event directors that can look beyond the bottom line and see the sport growing in the future. The person who attends the most shoould get something for those are the riders that have dedicated more time in supporting the comps. But it also could hurt attendance when 1 riders secures 1st place by the middle of the season. I agree that we need to have minimum of comps attended and I like the idea of taking only the best 3 or so scores.

You could set up for member ships at the first of the year, say 30 a person. Print up some shirts, get some stickers and send them to the riders as a welcome package. Everyone get's something for their money and NATS gets a little start up money. It could go a long ways in ordering some trophies/tape what have ya. Just a thought that popped iinto my head just then. I could facilitate the printing, donate the stickers myself and take care of the fulfillment part of it. Of course, these are thing that a comittee could discuss.

I say pick a select group and everyone meet in a central location. Have a group ride then discuss things over the weekend. Actually you guys could all come down to Tishomingo on the 20th and discuss things. Ok, I had to throw in my last comp somewhere:Wavey:.

[va_tick]

An online forum would be most practicle

[MikeTheBike]

I also have access to a toll-free conference bridge.

Ryan and Jeff, I really want to thank you both especially for your input on this. Also, thanks to everyone else for your encouragement.

[mikeyr89]

I'm also going to change them such that you only earn points for your best three scores, inline with the minimum of three events for points. This encourages people to attend at least three events, thereby earning points, but it also encourages them to attend more events in hopes of improving their overall position.

Actually, I was thinking along the lines of $20 annual NATS membership that is completely voluntary. If you do subscribe, you will be issued a card that will get you $5 off of the entry fee at any NATS event. That way, going to just four events would make your membership worth it. Also, this prevents non-members from being discouraged from attending the events and doesn't require the event directors to pay NATS to run an event.


Great ideas!

Keep us posted on anything you guys talk about not on the forums. Thanks!

[J Trials 31]

I also have access to a toll-free conference bridge.

Ryan and Jeff, I really want to thank you both especially for your input on this. Also, thanks to everyone else for your encouragement.

Your welcome Mike! You deserve more for what you do for this sport! Heck, your the one who got me started in biketrials. Keep us updated with your plans.

Hey, I would support this NATC membership idea, Sounds pretty good to me.

[MikeTheBike]

So, does anyone know a reputable accountant that is interested in trials? It turns out that our only option for properly dealing with the money in the eyes of the IRS is to create a non-profit association. Not exactly a 501(c)(3) but similar. I started to look up how to do this on IRS.gov but I got lost pretty quickly. We'll also need to name some people for a board of directors to make the association legit. I'm not sure what all offices that are required but I'm sure it's something along the lines of Pres, VP, Secretary and Treasurer - maybe more. So, Ryan and Jeff, you interested?

[Edge]

So, does anyone know a reputable accountant that is interested in trials? It turns out that our only option for properly dealing with the money in the eyes of the IRS is to create a non-profit association. Not exactly a 501(c)(3) but similar. I started to look up how to do this on IRS.gov but I got lost pretty quickly. We'll also need to name some people for a board of directors to make the association legit. I'm not sure what all offices that are required but I'm sure it's something along the lines of Pres, VP, Secretary and Treasurer - maybe more. So, Ryan and Jeff, you interested?
Count me in, doesn't matter which position as I'm sure we'll all share responsibilities. I'll check with my Sister in Law, she is a CPA.

[MIKE1968]

Probably associating trials with weed, alcohol, women and glory as opposed to a bunch of douche bags talking about how many MMs they need on their frame to gap a rock would send this sport to greatness..like skateboarding or bmx. Then again anyone worthwhile at riding trials leaves in the US, euros have more of a faggy attitude and can still think a skinsuit is cool...honestly, asking about CPAs on a trials forum to get this sport off the ground? :rofl: You guys think to hard, and of the WRONG shit.


Then again I've put on comps with $15 entries and somehow had over $400 in pay offs with prizes 3 deep in every category . How that worked I'm not sure. I could talk a lot , but given the majority of long posts in here and knowing my audience it would fall on deaf ears. Like going into a church and telling them there isn't a god. I think lance would understand though, he is a silent one who actually knows what is up. The rest walk around with eyes and ears sewn shut while still blabbing...

[MikeTheBike]

Moment or Andrew (whichever bipolar personality you are in when you read this),

Thank you for you opinion. When you have something useful to add that will help us move forward, I look forward to reading it.

Believe me, I realize how futile it was likely to be to post here asking for help setting up the non-profit association. However, one doesn't know until one tries. Also, it has helped to make my point.

For those who might be worried about a NATS association membership fee for 2008, please set your mind at ease. This process takes far too long to be completed before the end of 2007. I hope to get it done by 2009. I'll keep everyone updated.