king expertsz

[AndyT]

so for a while, whilst riding at speed, my king will take about 1/2 a full rotation till it engages...not really a problem until yesterday I tried a large gap (lots of force) twice and each time there was a pop- but nothing skipped...just a huge identical pop...when i went to riding around on the ground the king would rarely engage normally. When compared to a riding friends brand new king, i basically have a 48 engagement hub - comparitively it misses a lot compared to this new hub...


this is a 9 year old part, never serviced..so I took it off the wheel and I can't duplicate any slipping with my hand, it feels totally solid.


Also it seemed that it got worse as the day went on - like as if something dried up or whatever and it got worse after a few hours riding?



With my limited tools (no special king shit) can I work on this? Drop some triflow somewheres?

[AndyT]

while i was doing this, I was IMed this:


tannersoap (11:50:46 PM): you have two 5mm allen wrenches, right?
tannersoap (11:51:11 PM): pull the cones off the king hub and take off the driveshell
tannersoap (11:51:34 PM): then clean the ring drive really well and put some triflow on it, reassemble, profit


So yeah I already pulled both cones off when i missed the IM...and uh...can't get the driveshell off the hub body. Any advice.

[smudge]

bicep power! pull hard and twist counter-cockwise.

[AndyT]

:rofl:


I said fuck it and just stood on top of my wheel with both my feet on the rim and pulled as hard as i could with a wrench. Probably put a good 350 pounds of pressure on it, before my head was going to explode it came off and i fell on a table. Looks a little NOT like what the insides of the kings look like on their web site :momaru:


on the right side (near the driveshell) there is literally 3mm of gunk completely taken over the threads. probably bad.

[lucky13]

Take your toothbrush (buy a new one for your toofs) and soak it with triflow and scrub away till you can see metal and all the wear marks.

Make an educated guess of how the parts relate to the pictures at King.com and see if any grooves do not belong.

Also,.. while you have the driveshell out,.. pull on the main bearing with your fingers and see if you can pop that out. Mine comes out as is due to spoke tension and it being older than yours. If you can pull out that large bearing, you can toofbrush the drive ring as well.

Other than that,.. no biggie,..

I was wondering when it would need to be cleaned.

[AndyT]

here is a pictures AFTER i started to clean :hsugh:



http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/yiekeees.jpg

[lucky13]

GRRRRRRRROOOOoooooWWWWWWSSSSsssseeee

[aki]

Holy crap Andy LOL

[AndyT]

is it not supposed to look like that :o

[hophopsnap]

:hsugh:

[AndyT]

so i don't have any triflow , choices are:

sam adams black
red wine (02 cab)
dot 4 brake something
magura oil
urine
buy triflow tomorrow

[aki]

It just doesn't look like...King any more :eek5:

[darkside]

Looks pretty fucked to me. Maybe not so much after cleaning?

Call King about servicing. I know you don't want to, but you should.

[lucky13]

02 cab,. drink the mineral oil :hsugh:

I mean,..uh,. viseversa.

[AndyT]

Looks pretty fucked to me. Maybe not so much after cleaning?

Call King about servicing. I know you don't want to, but you should.



nerrrrrrd

[netto]

i'd buy a new king hub

[AndyT]

Why

[netto]

i wouldnt want you to destroy your pretty face

[lamard]

king charges like $25 for a hub service..... and usually they replace anything thats broken under warantee. it kinda sounds like the ring drive is missing a few teeth. send it to them they have all the parts on hand. also triflow is too thin to use for lubricating the ringdrive, you need the thicker king fluid so it stays put.

[chronic]

I use brake cleaner, whipe it with a cloth. A couple drops of triflo, Its good. Do that every ...I would like to say 6 months! In your case, decade. And you should be good.

it kinda sounds like the ring drive is missing a few teeth.

... How the fuck would a few missing teeth on a ring drive, if a couple hardened teeth can be removed...effect the engagement of a ring drive when the other 138 teeth having sex with each other, not grab?

[aki]

The picture he posted isn't a ring drive, I'd hate to know the conditions of the two ring drives inside...

[chronic]

Yeah, thats just the spline the one spring tensioned ring rides on. Being as dirty as it is, sand is probably catching inbetween the two splines stopping the full contact of teeth.

[Chris]

king charges like $25 for a hub service..... and usually they replace anything thats broken under warantee. it kinda sounds like the ring drive is missing a few teeth. send it to them they have all the parts on hand. also triflow is too thin to use for lubricating the ringdrive, you need the thicker king fluid so it stays put.

:ugh2: It's more or less proven that thin fluids like triflow or finish line wet do the best job, when the hub is used for trials. The hub is more likely to skip, when thick fluids are used...

edit: a 9 year old king hub... wtf! Now that's a quality part! I guess it just needs some general servicing/cleaning and then it's ready for another 10 years of abuse :)

[RomanC]

I would clean with WD40 to get all that gunk out from the hub. Also soak the hell out of the insides and then let it drain out in a 20 mins or so. Then tri-flow the insides and slap it together. Might not be a bad idea to take it to the show and have them expose the ring drive. Maybe some shit built up between the teeth and that prevents engagement. (or the teeth are missing).

[breakoutstout]

it's pretty easy i just did mine mine while watching a dvd:

you need: simple green, a toothbrush, paper towels, and water.

use the toothbrush to scrape from inside to outside in one direction around the splines inside the hubshell. those should be a black color.

spray the external splines down with simple green and use your finger nails to clean between each spline untill it's silver again and all the dirt is gone. you really gotta spend some time here.

once both of those are done apply tri-flow to the internal and external splines, then press the freewheel back into the hub with your palm, it might take a few tries to engage it.

[Tanner]

yeah, sorry I didn't get back to you andy. my internet died and I couldn't be fucked at 2am to fix it. I see it kinda worked though.

[Giant1118]

lol at ghetto bike, clean that shit off and throw it back together and come to rockport

[toyota200x]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4611651662298929633&q=chris+king&total=2712&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2732641701589174520&q=chris+king&total=2712&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

A couple good vids about Kings.

[AndyT]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4611651662298929633&q=chris+king&total=2712&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

A couple good vids about Kings.


:hsugh: I hope mine isn't supposed to have that much room with the spring thing


i'm going to throw some triflow on it and see how the beast handels...report back later, i'll try not to throw my bike. Does anyone sell full new czars in the US?

[AndyT]

just put it back together, sounds MEAN...Real test will be tonight :hs:

[lamard]

:ugh2: It's more or less proven that thin fluids like triflow or finish line wet do the best job, when the hub is used for trials. The hub is more likely to skip, when thick fluids are used...


funny, i had a friend who serviced his king himself and used triflow. he would get the odd skip every 5 or 10 mins, so i took it apart and used the ring drive fluid and he never had any problems after that. i've been told the only time to use a thinner lube is in teperatures below zero.

if a few teeth in the same area of the ring drive are worn or missing it will skip at only a certain point. also if the teeth on the drive shell and worn/rounded it will slip until the next tooth cathces, which will make a sound but not really affect preformance. i had this happen to myself, and noticed the wear on the driveshell teeth when i took it apart.

[chronic]

*sigh* you're the result of anal sex.

Your friend, perhaps the gay in your avater there...probably adjusted the hub incorrectly after using tri-flo. Because, considering you're 1 of probably a good million people who have used triflo and failed. And I think by that ratio... Makes it obvious, that you guys fucked up.

And the ring drive... Not to say missing a few teeth wouldn't be a bad thing. But for shits n giggles, if a tooth was missing. I ask again...how is it going to cause your king to skip. If the other 71 teeth on that ring, are still going to run into the 72 teeth on the other ring. Do you know what the ring drive looks like?

Do you realize all 72 teeth engage at the same fucken time?? There is no, sequential operation.

[hophopsnap]

the gay


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: whenever I hear that from canadians

[AndyT]

report:


BOMB


PROOF


GODLY


NOISE


HARD


CORE


BONER



Now that i'm running almost entirely tri-flow in this area, should I regrease often...I get a strange feeling that the ring drive lasts longer? But it is INSANE how good it is.

[rush]

:rofl:

I love that real deep mean sound :eek3:

[lamard]

hey chronic those are some quick judgements there. Clearly i didn't fuck anything up as i have fully rebuilt several king hubs, with the king tool. I do know what the ring drive looks like. and i don't belive that i said one tooth was broken, but several in the same area. He hasn't serviced this thing in aparently nine years of trials.

now i hope that YOU realize that there are two parts to the ring drive that are held together by spring tension. if there are missing teeth on the area under load from the spring (not the ring that contacts the driveshell) it will skip. how you can argue that a component such as this doesn't need all of it's pieces to work properly makes no sense. Try removing a few bearings from a cup & cone system hub and see how well it rolls, how long the other bearings last...etc.

i just read your signature...read it next time you decide to call someone else gay

[Dekes]

How come they don't put any mounting grease on the threads when putting the hub together? Is it bad or so?

[dengenerate]

is it not supposed to look like that :o

couldn't clear a 9 foot gap bc of that?? hey, excuses are like assholes... everybody has one and they all stink. :luke:

[lucky13]

report:Now that i'm running almost entirely tri-flow in this area, should I regrease often...I get a strange feeling that the ring drive lasts longer? But it is INSANE how good it is.

Yea, every 6 months is great, and you can get by with an annual pull apart and lube.

It only really materes if you ride in dirty places,.. mostly.

Edit: Just rode mine and it's kinda quiet from the mixture I put into it last wipe down: 2parts triflow, one part roadie dumond tech and 1 part profloyd. Probly overkill.

I'll pull it apart before Boston and wiper her down with triflow only.

[afrobot]

hey, excuses are like assholes...just pull apart and lube :luke:

That part in picture is demolistroyed . Replace it immediately.

[Rodmunch]

and i don't belive that i said one tooth was broken, but several in the same area. He hasn't serviced this thing in aparently nine years of trials.

Take a closer look at Andy's pic...there aren't any teeth missing, it's just a buildup of gunk.

[Dekes]

I use air filter cleaner for MX bikes to clean such stuff, works really really good.

[dengenerate]

...pull apart and lube.

:rofl:

[Cryo-Cube]

i just disassembled cleaned and put my king back together without the king tools. Scurry, fortunately i didnt break it.

The freewheel was louder before i cleaned it :nuts:

[AndyT]

That part in picture is demolistroyed . Replace it immediately.

how so.

[AndyT]

Take a closer look at Andy's pic...there aren't any teeth missing, it's just a buildup of gunk.

and it all came off in clumps and when I was done it looked brand new...




so the real question. who sells the new czar in the US, where can I get a good tensioner.

[rush]

My King hasnt been touched in ~ 5 years, I can only imagine what it looks like inside.

Ive always had the same one, never skips, just rolls along like a dream. Comp this weekend so I hope I havent jinxed myself.

[Giant1118]

i just disassembled cleaned and put my king back together without the king tools. Scurry, fortunately i didnt break it.

The freewheel was louder before i cleaned it :nuts:

mine does the same, but its never been all that loud, its also NEVER skipped so i dont really care

[Rodmunch]

so the real question. who sells the new czar in the US, where can I get a good tensioner.

Czar here:

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30761

[AndyT]

fuck that horiz drop out shit...are they all horiz? Don't the horz use their gay sized hub too...

[Cryo-Cube]

scroll down :momaru:

[Rodmunch]

Yeah Andy, you freaked out gay style too soon. Vert drops frame is belowz.

[chronic]

hey chronic those are some quick judgements there. Clearly i didn't fuck anything up as i have fully rebuilt several king hubs, with the king tool. I do know what the ring drive looks like. and i don't belive that i said one tooth was broken, but several in the same area. He hasn't serviced this thing in aparently nine years of trials.

now i hope that YOU realize that there are two parts to the ring drive that are held together by spring tension. if there are missing teeth on the area under load from the spring (not the ring that contacts the driveshell) it will skip. how you can argue that a component such as this doesn't need all of it's pieces to work properly makes no sense. Try removing a few bearings from a cup & cone system hub and see how well it rolls, how long the other bearings last...etc.

i just read your signature...read it next time you decide to call someone else gay

What the fuck are you talking about?

One ring is stationary. The second ring sits ontop of the splines andy posted pics of, the only thing your spring does is keeps pressure on them so they're constantly in contact with each other. As soon as you pedal, like a BOLT IN A NUT! Your one ring is driven into the next catching and THRUSTING you forwards!:wuteva:

Just, say, you ground a few teeth off the rings, assuming you did not leave a bur, what keeps your rings from engaging??? Tell me.

There are no spots that receive more torque than the rest per certain cycles. Hense the beauty of a ring drive. It distributes force equally amoungst the 144 teeth per every engagement as those 72 opposing teeth are always parralell because the one ring is driven on a helical spline! The next never moves out! of its spline. You're argument makes no sense!
However I do agree that missing teeth, is a big fucken no no, but at the same time.

You said load, you fag.

[AndyT]

Yeah Andy, you freaked out gay style too soon. Vert drops frame is belowz.

I didn't realize he was selling 4000 frames

[lamard]

One ring is stationary.

the other is not, it floats.... and is held in place by spring tension. i think you need to research what your talking about. if it's so perfrct than how does it skip ever?

this is kind of a pointless argumnet, you seem uninformed. if you think about it this would be similar to if a cog or chainring was missing a tooth. it would cause the chain to skip once in a while.

[chronic]

http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/Smileys/classic/no.gif Durring engagement, that one ring isn't doing shit but siting. The ring with helical splines is what mashes the teeth together.

The point to my argument was you said maybe a couple teeth were missing. For starters I found that unbelievable, just because they are hardened and through the working design it seems unreal(equally worn perhaps). To support that, I was trying to convey the fact, that the two rings are always parrallel. Under no circumstances durring a pedal stroke, can they be cock eyed, putting more stress on one point of the ring than the other, through the simple screw design pulling them together. Hense the perfect load distribution.
Because they're pulled together equally on machined splines with such tight tolerances, if say you were missing teeth, in theory you would still catch unless there was a bur, or something in the way.
Why does it skip, in a perfect world it wouldn't. But you're outside riding trials with more factors to consider than you can imagine.

One like your ky jelly lube you use in your king. Resistance putting a delay on the action of things.


Anywho, way to go andy

Here, so our bickering isn't quite so fucken gay
http://i9.tinypic.com/6aiokme.jpg

[goose]

BAHHAHAH... That's funny!!! I missed this forum while I was on vacation:) I agree with chronic, and horay Andy for fixin it up!