Simtra trials assessment

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

Hi all,
I would like to make an assessment on the strong and weak points of the Simtra brand so far, might it be:

Products (Quality, look, design,...)
Pricing
Visibility (internet site, team,...)
General information (time response on e-mails, information received,...)
After sale serviceWhy do you buy or not buy Simtra products?
What type of product or service do you think is missing from Simtra
What do you expect from a MTB/trials bike? Are you looking for weight? Durability and reliability, brand image, etc...


All criticisms, good or bad are important and will be taken into account.

And if you have questions, do not hesitate,…


Thanks to all.

[Noel]

if i had the money or needed a new frame i'd definitly buy the dark grey frame cause of it's geo and looks. also the rear disc choice is great. like in the other thread, my only wish for the simtra frame would be that it goes with horizontal dropouts and stick with the same geo, maybe change from a 1080 to a 1090 at most since i'm only 5'7

[yay]

2. Graphics deginer with Simtra needs to GTFO; do a rebranding

[Bryan]

I considered a simtra because of the disc tab

however, the weight and price were both too high

[RomanC]

I say ney to the horiz drop outs. I think maybe a slightly higher BB and mayble more choices of colors.

[RomanC]

Oh brand wise it doesn't matter as its all made in Taiwan anyway.

[Tanner]

maybe vbrake mounts?
also, price keeps me away. What happened to ~$400 frames?

[Yurich]

My only criticism is that the handlebar and stem are overly heavy. The bar is 100g more than everything else on the market. It is relatively cheap, though, so it evens out. Personally, I like a little flex. The stem has a completely useless gusset. I've yet to see a stem rip in half at that spot.

What I would like to see is you guys pushing the trials product to Canadian bike shops. Maybe send a few catalogs out for customers to check out. After all, the stuff is relatively local and fairly easy to get.

Right now is a time when trials is on the growing wave, as I see more locals getting into it. Being a Canadian-based company, you guys have a distinct advantage over the Echo empire. What's happening now is, you guys are basically competing with everything else out there through the same five online shops. If you guys were to find a way to tap into the bike shop circuit (through your street/park lines), you'd be a step ahead of all those Chinese guys. Hell, you'd be the first since Monty to do that. I say it's about time a Joe could walk into a store to find his trials bar. With emphasis on community presense, customer support, and advertising, you could be a household name around these parts (I'm in Toronto area). Get some cranks, freewheels, rims, headsets rebranded and pass them off as trials stuff. People dig that. Maybe an inexpensive complete build?

Anyway, those are my thoughts

[aki]

I think if the frame was $100 cheaper but had a strong looking disc mount like BT I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. The price is a bit tad high considering the weight like someone mentioned and I was never a fan of the bluish/purplish looking frame color. It can use solid black, silver, white, etc as an option as well.

[mattyv8]

im the designer for Simtra now, I didnt do the designs though for the current frame, Will did in Quebec, im taking over now and this is what I have come up with so far. (http://mattvenhuizen.com/files/Simtra-ST2_preview4.jpg)
give feedback, thoughts etc.. cant please everyone but were open to suggestions.. New Simtra logo for 08 etc etc..

[trialsin usa]

Good place to insert comments from dealer point of view:

1. Horizontal drop outs. Leads to disc pad alignment issues, unless you have slotted disc mounts. Slotted disc mounts leave yet one more thing to get way out of wack when (it is usually when, no if) a bolt comes loose. Also, when you just want to whip a new tube on, vertical dropouts ensure re-alignment simply by putting wheel back in dropout.

2. V-brake mounts. I would love to see more V-brake mount bikes. However, first we will need to see more V-brake riders. From this forum, one would think that there were a bunch of V-brake riders out there all waiting with bated breath for a v-brake frame to come out. I have been down this road a few times...... there really are not enough v-brake riders to warrant a run of them. Sad, but true.

3. They are priced higher than other frames. There is also someone in North America needing to earn a living from them and not experimenting on the general public when they are released. Both are reasons enough for purchasing some peace of mind.

4. Bars and stems are soooooooo personal, unless they are not selling at all..... don't redo them. I can name more than a few people that hate every bar made to date.

Before you think this is just an ad for Simtra, the comments are reletive to any trials frame/bike/parts maker. Something I would change?? I guess I liked last years blue better than this years. Maybe the logos on the grey one could contrast a bit better. I like the style of the logos on downtube... unique.

[Guss78]

I wasn't a big fan of the off center sticker placement and the wornout/faded stickers. Too close to the American Eagle/Gap worn out fad. Color was a little off too. Bike was too heavy for my liking. I would pay more for a lighter frame; I would be hard pressed to buy a heavy frame.

Kinda sad that the bike might be going to a +30 or more, seems like that’s all you can buy now, I liked that Simtra offered a rare geometry that was really basic.

My personal preference is:
-Low 4lbs range
-1080wb
-72 degree head angle
-+20bb
-385 CS


-Nice to have the rear disk option, but possibly have a “light” version with no rear disk.
-No horizontal drop outs
-I would rather see a company focus on building a nice light frame that produce a bunch of parts.

I like this color combo, but inverted...

Dallas

http://i2.pinkbike.com/photo/1449/pbpic1449513.jpg

[Carbon]

About the comment about Simtra being in bike shops. My bike shop can get Simtra products brought in, but in Edmonton even though our Trials scene is growing the shops dont think its worth bringing in frames and parts if only a couple people are going to buy stuff and the shop only make a few dollars off some frames. Trials needs to be a lot bigger for that.
My opinion on currrent simtra products is "good job". My friend has a simtra st1 and has beat the crap out of it for more than a year now. It seems to be holding up just fine. Being able to choose disc or rim brakes is awesome.The drop-outs are just fine the way they are too. Geo is perfect right now in my opinion. Good for street and pure trials. All would like from Simtra is a riser bar thats similar to the echo ones. I plan on picking up one of the charcoal st-1's soon. The new paint is sweet too.

[Yurich]

About the comment about Simtra being in bike shops. My bike shop can get Simtra products brought in, but in Edmonton even though our Trials scene is growing the shops dont think its worth bringing in frames and parts if only a couple people are going to buy stuff and the shop only make a few dollars off some frames. Trials needs to be a lot bigger for that.

Right, it's harder to sell a trials frame, but when my rim dies, cranks strip, or frewheel blows, I don't want to wait a week to receive a new one. I totally believe that 70% or local riders will run a "Simtra" rim, which may be the same chinese zhi/echo/viz, if they can go and buy it the same day. This is possible in GTA

[Rodmunch]

I think that blue/silver/white Simtra frame will be my next frame, if I can get it around 1090mm WB, +20 or so BB. I'll pay more for it than for an Echo etc. if the quality is there.

Oh, and that white proto in Jeff Anderson's post....yeah, I love that one. The frame shape and color really go well together, but I think the +40 BB is too high for me. +30 would be cool.

[yay]

i'm still worthless.

[stickyworm]

Yay, your post is inanely stupid. If you like echo, great, this thread is about simtra feedback.

Personally I see a lot of variation in the stock geometries right now. Nothing in the mod world apart from toxsin and monty. If there is already a frame out there with the same geometry, then you have to offer either a better build quality, availability or better esthetics. I like the simtra build quality and love that there is a bent top tube. A little out of style maybe? I still like it because it is an option. I also like that the geometry is its own. The only reason I can see for changing the geometry is to make a pro-model. The Barton pro-model? An oportunity to allow the pro to tweak their geometry.

[rush]

I have to say, the only thing I dont like about Simtra is the downtube/toptube...joining tube....fuck... mental block.... I should not have smoked so much pot as a kid. :wtc:

[yay]

Yay, your post is inanely stupid. If you like echo, great, this thread is about simtra feedback.

Personally I see a lot of variation in the stock geometries right now. Nothing in the mod world apart from toxsin and monty. If there is already a frame out there with the same geometry, then you have to offer either a better build quality, availability or better esthetics. I like the simtra build quality and love that there is a bent top tube. A little out of style maybe? I still like it because it is an option. I also like that the geometry is its own. The only reason I can see for changing the geometry is to make a pro-model. The Barton pro-model? An oportunity to allow the pro to tweak their geometry.

How hard is it to figure out that's a joke, dumbass?

Also, do you really think you post was at least somewhat more useful than that Czar picture?
Apart from common knowledge and restatement of the obvious, its all useless bull shit. Youre an idiot.

[netto]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Cryo-Cube]

love the current low standover(low toptube, small seatstay) look of the bike.

my fav geo
1085 wb
+25-30 BB
380 CS

Vbrake mounts would be great. I actually switched my previous frame just to have vmounts

[WhiteRavenKS]

yay- your joke was neither funny nor helpful to the original post. so maybe you're just a stupid asshole?

matt- those new designs for frame graphics are fnatastic. i'm seriously way more interested in the frames just off the looks. anyone remember when frames were supposed to look good not just be silver turds? yeah, sweet stuff matt.

perhaps doing a minimum order of vee brake frames would make enough people happy. if you pre-order style sold enough to justify the cost of making them, then i'd say do it. i'd switch if given the choice.

horizontal dropouts are stupid on trials bikes. there is enough chain torque to slip the wheel when you do stupid trials crap. like tim said, having that and a disk set up would just be more hassel than it would be worth.

i've heard people complain about pricing. stick to your guns if you can afford to because a $600 frame with a good company behind it is a more appealing sale to me than a $400 frame with some sketchy weasel company not standing behind their products. if a costumer lacks the ability to see that kind of advantage then they wouldnt be the kind of customers i would want anyway.

i've had a huge range of frames and of all of them i've always appreciated attention to details (cable routing, good paint, etc), stiffness and reasonable weight above most anything else. i fully expect a frame to break after about a year of hard riding so from a durability standpoint i would honestly expect it to last a reasonable warranty period of say, 6 months or a year. anything beyond that is bonus time. crash replacement frame pricing options are always appreciated for 2nd hand riders and out of warranty frames.

your brand image is doing fine i think. almost everyone i've ever talked to about your stuff has had good things to say about it. it's nothing exotic or special really but it does the job well and without much trouble. trials riders love to bitch about everything they can so even though they might not be singing your praise, their general silence of complaints is effectively the same thing. i think the fact that you even got on here and asked for people's input and opinions speaks for your company's cred.

it would be nice to consistantly see more stuff team wise than james. i know he's the kid with the time to spare in making videos all the time but stills and short vids from the other riders more often would be rad i think.

[WhiteRavenKS]

nice one yay- "fucking douche" is what he just pm'ed me.

[rush]

ibban

[rush]

your brand image is doing fine i think. almost everyone i've ever talked to about your stuff has had good things to say about it. it's nothing exotic or special really but it does the job well and without much trouble. trials riders love to bitch about everything they can so even though they might not be singing your praise, their general silence of complaints is effectively the same thing. i think the fact that you even got on here and asked for people's input and opinions speaks for your company's cred.


Absolutely.

[Acolyte]

horizontal dropouts are stupid on trials bikes. there is enough chain torque to slip the wheel when you do stupid trials crap. like tim said, having that and a disk set up would just be more hassel than it would be worth.

I think this is a "6 of one, half dozen of the other" issue. I very much agree with vertical dropouts' usefulness when combined with disc brakes, etc.

Ease of flat changes? Wheel realignement? I've never had a problem reinstalling a wheel after a flat, and how long does it really take? 1 minute? How about the fun many of you have readjusting your hanger mounted tensioner on wheel reinstallation? Somewhere on every system there's a minute wasted checking/adjusting something.

Wheel slip would be more annoying, but with proper tensioners/proper installation, it can be minimized.

There are pros and cons to both dropout style, and it is unique the riders needs and preferences.

[carnagr]

I ride an ST-1, and I think one of my biggest complaints is that there is no stop cable routing to the rear brake. Even if you were to do a full length on the left side for the maggie, and then like stop routing on the right side for v-brake, that would be cool. Or like others are saying, a v-brake frame for us vee people, again with the stop routing so I don't have to run full housing. Full length housing makes the brake mad mushy unless you use Nokon.

I also just put a new tire on my bike, a Maxxis Minion 2.5, and it rubs on the front of the frame (on the BB shell). I JUST built the wheel, and it's perfectly true and dished, so that's not the reason. There's just no clearance for the knobs. Once they wear a bit it's fine though, although it's still a bit of an annoyance.

And about the horizontal/vertical dropout argument, I think the absolute best dropouts ever are the ones on the BT 7: the pieces slide in the dropouts, then you screw them in, so there's pretty well zero chance of the wheel going anywhere. That's a really wicked design you might look at.

Overall, I love the frame, and I've been beating the crap out of it for just over a year, and there's no signs of it giving up anytime soon. Maybe think about getting a fork out there? Keep up the good work!

[firewrx612]

And about the horizontal/vertical dropout argument, I think the absolute best dropouts ever are the ones on the BT 7: the pieces slide in the dropouts, then you screw them in, so there's pretty well zero chance of the wheel going anywhere. That's a really wicked design you might look at.


Yes, I have a BT 7 and the dropout design is brilliant. It works really well. Not that I advocate anyone stealing the design.

[Dang!]

I like the frame designs, I like the components, the website is decent and the branding approach is right on target. The biggest issue I have had with Simtra, and the single reason why I have not thought to purchase one, is the paint.
It looks thick and poorly applied, almost like a plastic coating, it makes the bikes look cheap!
I would steer clear of gloss paint for your products.
Look at what META did with there product, they stick with off colors but it's a satin with a slight texture. In fact I've seen one of there early bikes in the flagship color but in a gloss- looked like crap!
Koxx- they have a couple gloss bikes... meh! The rest of their line looks really good. The new Coust. is bright, shiny, and really stand out, but it's not gloss or polished.
What about a hard ano finish?

[WhiteRavenKS]

ano would be nice, lighter than paint too i guess. have you seen the simtras up close? i kind of thought the same thing about them before but seeing them in person changed that, they looked alright to me when the bike was 5 feet away, much better than photos online anyways.

yay's new pm to me: "you are being a dick." hahaha.

as for the dropouts issue- i'd rather tighten the two bolts on my tensioner and have my wheel stay put than deal with any slipping of my wheel ever. the bt design seems alright but it sure does look... not cool. i'd rather have function over fashion... maybe if a similar system could be done up that didnt look like a big thing of legos hanging off the back of the frame?

[Noel]

Personally I see a lot of variation in the stock geometries right now. Nothing in the mod world apart from toxsin and monty. If there is already a frame out there with the same geometry, then you have to offer either a better build quality, availability or better esthetics. I like the simtra build quality and love that there is a bent top tube. A little out of style maybe? I still like it because it is an option. I also like that the geometry is its own. The only reason I can see for changing the geometry is to make a pro-model. The Barton pro-model? An oportunity to allow the pro to tweak their geometry.


good point

[trialswannabe]

I like the simtra frames but what is keeping me from buying one is the weight and the paint. The geo seems to be good for everything from what I see.

The new paint ideas look appealing as it stands out.

And also it be nice to see the frame be lighter then what deng is offering
So thats some where around 4lbs

[BrettM]

For the horizontal vs. vertical dropout debate I personally would never run horizontals. I use them on my bmx obviously and I hate them. I would rather use vertical and a chain tensioner. As for using them with disks and the hassles and all that check out the simtra site and look at their two other frames. They both use horizontal and use a system that looks "pretty good" for disk use on horizontal drops.

Do people use horizontal drops just to not have to deal with bent hangers and derailleurs and all that? Grab a Rennen tensioner. It locks into your axle and hanger so no more bent hangers and I use mine to grind and stall on like its a peg on a bmx.

Christian your trials bike is so far from anything I would buy geometry wise so I won't even comment on it. I like the short bikes and your two other frames are spot on except for the bb heights. Zero drop or higher for me please. I looked at both those bikes for a very very long time before deciding to build up an old Koxx 1040 frame with a zero drop bb.

As for v's versus Maguras do people mind using magura to V adapters? Since I've been trying out the Koxx I've been using the adapters to run Vs and they work fine. If I was looking at a frame and it was Magura mount only it would be great if you were able to pick up a pair of adapters maybe as an option with the frame right away. I figure most places you buy your trials frames have them but I dunno, maybe I don't understand what is so wrong with running the adapters. Don't give up on the disk issue either. Go back 5 years or so when there was nothing. The technology keeps getting better and more and more people will want the frame with that option.

I also think looks alone can sell a lot of stuff. Having Matt on board should sell a few frames alone.

As for the team I don't follow too much but I know you have 3 of the probably top 10 comp riders in North America on it. You do have two other frames and there is the whole "video" side of trials too. Maybe a little diversifying there.

[carnagr]

Having to use vee adaptors is annoying for several reasons.

1. It tacks on about 50 bucks to the price of the frame where if you had a vee version, you wouldn't have to deal with.

2. It adds 60 grams or so.

3. I've broken two brake adaptors now, one on each side. Not from hitting them, but from use - snapped right where the bolt is hugely countersinked.

4. Unless you make your own adaptor, they don't allow you to run the pads very low in the calipers - in fact mine are running almost right at the top. This gives extremely poor leverage, taking a little bit away from what could be an even more awesome brake.

These may all seem like trivial things, but you put them all together and it becomes a bit of a bitch, and a big reason NOT to run vees. I think a vee specific frame would help spur popularity for them, making it well worth while to make a vee frame.

Also, on the weight thing, it may be a bit on the heavy side at 4.7 lbs, but it's a damn tough frame. Not that I wouldn't rather my frame be something like 4.2, but I also don't want to spend $650 on a frame every few months.

[AndyT]

after seeing my friend struggle with horizontals on his new zoo, i had a flashback to when I rode mod. FUCK


THAT



NOISE.

[BrettM]

I'll say fair enough to issue number 4 with the v adapters. 1 and 2 is a non issue for me personally. Possibly number 3. Which adapters do you break? It seems like something that can be fixed with some proper thought, as well as number 4.

I have no idea how much it effects the cost of a batch of frames of say doing half with v and half with magura. Maybe the issue is just making sure you can get rid of the v ones? I really have no idea. If its not cost definately go with both options. Maybe even if it is cost do it anyway? People are willing to throw down 50 for adapters that don't even work as well as if they are direct frame mount anyways...would you pay an extra 50 for the frame if it meant V brake mounts? I guess I would if thats what I was using.

[spoke2570]

Gotta say that I am not crazy about those graphics. It is clean, good work that has the feeling of a cookie cutter.

The only thing yay did for this forum was show a frame that was a total cookie cutter bike that looked a little edgy for some ragged paint.

I spend for onshore production. I like a frame that is not the lightest, but is in the running for tough. I prefer edgy/nitchy graphics like Fat Chance, Brew or Ibis used to. The last thing I want is a frame that looks like a Trek, Or Iron Horse. Those big Simtra labels and smooth 21st century graphics would hit the trash so fast. There is something to be said for subtlety.

[WhiteRavenKS]

say a min order from the factory is 25 or 50 frames. if you can pre-sell half of those to people who would throw down a deposit for the frame in advance then i'd guess the rest could sort themselves out of inventory and into the hands of customers over time just because i'm sure some people wouldnt want to do the pre-order thing. if it meant paying a few extra bucks, i'd rather pay up front for a frame that had what i wanted in the first place than rig up crap on something to just make it work.

trying to give some thought to stuff i'd like to see from you guys and i think a fork would be nice. someone mentioned it earlier. seems like there are a bunch of deng forks out there. i'm not that fond of any of them really, i seem to have a problem breaking the steer tubes. the koxx forxx that i had was a steel steerer bonded to the alloy legs and it lasted me the longest of any fork. that 2.2 pound-ish weight range for a stiff and reliable fork is something i'd buy over a 2 pound fork i was kind of scared to run.

[carnagr]

I broke the Zhi adaptors. They're basically an exact rip-off of the Heatsink ones, although not as nicely machined.

As to not being able to get rid of v-frames, I would think that if you did a minimum production run of them, it shouldn't be a problem? I could be very wrong on this point, as I don't know how many a minimum production run is, but I would think as it would be one of the very few frames offering a v-brake frame, making it quite appleaing to a lot of people. As has been stated earlier in this thread, if Simtra isn't offering different geo, they have to justify charging more - quality of build is one aspect, but uniqueness, ie vee mounts, are one way of perhaps justifying the higher price tag.

[WhiteRavenKS]

in regards to the graphics- maybe offer a couple of base paint layer options, two or three colors and then decal kits for the rest of the graphics? based on the brian power behind some of the posts around here i wouldnt trust some people to sit on the toilet ther right way so i'm sure they wouldnt be able to handle the application of a large decal. but maybe that opens up more options for customers at not too huge of a cost to simtra? 30 bucks for the frame look of your choice is something i'd be into- dunno about anyone else though.

[spartan1]

i have a simtra psycho and have ridden the ST-1. The ST-1s geo is stop on and feels really nice with almost all moves. The price is a bit high but the warranty is super and the distributers a awsome. The Psycho's geo is amazing best ive ever ridden and the price is awsome. I really really want to like my Psycho but i hate the drop outs, they are awful and the tugs are very poorly designed. The stock screws for securing the tugs in place are not strong enough to run a disc brake and are too long for most set ups. Also the drop outs arnt long enough. I have found with most chains that if i add an extra link its super loose but if i take one out the tire is right up rubbing on the frame. I swapped to a bolt on axel and a threshold tensioner (i think) and scrapped the stock tugs and now it rides great. A small piece of kit but it made a big difference simtra guys
luv us trials frame though

[WhiteRavenKS]

yay wont really be posting any more input on this or any other topics for a bit because he's proven to be a worthless member around here. have fun with the rest of the internet mister yay.

[spoke2570]

yay!!!!:bigthumb:

[Cryo-Cube]

4. Unless you make your own adaptor, they don't allow you to run the pads very low in the calipers - in fact mine are running almost right at the top. This gives extremely poor leverage, taking a little bit away from what could be an even more awesome brake.


Yo thats the main reason why adaters suck on most frames.
Felix made a custom adapter that works really well on all frames.
The difference between the heatsink and all other adapters is that the canti mount is directly under
the second (bottom) magura hole. Thus making it possible to run your pads on a low position -> more leverage->
hcore brute stopping powerzs

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/DSC03479.JPG

[tubender]

im the designer for Simtra now, I didnt do the designs though for the current frame, Will did in Quebec, im taking over now and this is what I have come up with so far. (http://mattvenhuizen.com/files/Simtra-ST2_preview4.jpg)
give feedback, thoughts etc.. cant please everyone but were open to suggestions.. New Simtra logo for 08 etc etc..

this is of the good things about trial, mfg's dealers and rider "fast tracking" development.

[BrettM]

I just went and looked at my V adapters from Bonz and my pads sit almost right at the bottom. Has there been any issues with these adapters failing?

[WhiteRavenKS]

i havent heard of any bonz ones breaking but i also hear getting ahold of them is nearly impossible now.

[Weetbix]

It's great to know companies still care about the riders opinions.

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

Thanks for all the imput so far, this is very good and I am telling you that what you are saying is not falling into deaf ears.

One thing that I would like maybe to clarify, is that to get minimum orders to change some features (like for a V brake model) for example, is 60 units. And since it is below 100 units, I have to pay a bit more for the frame.
So it easy to say, ''do a small bactch of V brake models, do a small batch of short frames, etc...) but the quantities are still quite high at this point for a small company to be able to do that.

For the V brake option (or any other option), I would be willing to do it, if I can get 35-40 pre-orders with a paid deposit. This would be no problem.

And to answer the question about shops (LBS) carrying trials stuff, it happens, but it is very rare. It is a vicious cycle, as shop do not carry stuff because there is no customer demand for it and there is no demand, because shops dont carry it.
The best way for this to change is to speak to your LBS and ask for this stuff. If there is demand they will carry it.

Keep the comments coming, this is very good and thanks again for all this imput.

[jaimer]

i havent heard of any bonz ones breaking but i also hear getting ahold of them is nearly impossible now.

Giant1118 Cracked both of his in half.

[DangerousDave]

broke my bonz too, they lasted a decent amount of time though. And come to think of it they put your vees in the exact same position as the heatsinks as I think heatsink just copied bonz.

[Cryo-Cube]

Thanks for all the imput so far, this is very good and I am telling you that what you are saying is not falling into deaf ears.

One thing that I would like maybe to clarify, is that to get minimum orders to change some features (like for a V brake model) for example, is 60 units. And since it is below 100 units, I have to pay a bit more for the frame.
So it easy to say, ''do a small bactch of V brake models, do a small batch of short frames, etc...) but the quantities are still quite high at this point for a small company to be able to do that.

For the V brake option (or any other option), I would be willing to do it, if I can get 35-40 pre-orders with a paid deposit. This would be no problem.
.

I totally understand you.
You could make something like i did on my custom frame though. Canti on top, 4bolt on bottom or vice versa.

http://misc.todoke.de/mamba_3.jpg

http://misc.todoke.de/mamba_7.jpg

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

I totally understand you.
You could make something like i did on my custom frame though. Canti on top, 4bolt on bottom or vice versa.


That is a good idea, but in practice this what happens for under the stay mounting.

- Limited crank arm clearance and even impossible with some models.
- They would be a B... to adjust
- Finally, since the screws are being pulled all the time, in the long run they would strip out.

[hopsalot]

Any thoughts on steel frames? Would this bring the price down? I love the feel of the Simtra geo but the frame is a bit to stiff for my old bones.

[Rodmunch]

That would be sick! I like that idea too.

[BrettM]

Any thoughts on steel frames? Would this bring the price down? I love the feel of the Simtra geo but the frame is a bit to stiff for my old bones.

The St1 done in cheap steel would probably weigh 5.5 pushing 6 pounds. Plus steel isn't the greatest material for the longer wheelbase bikes. They make a shorter wheelbase steel frame.

[Giant1118]

netto broke his too and hes a little asian, no joke

[lucky13]

I just went and looked at my V adapters from Bonz and my pads sit almost right at the bottom. Has there been any issues with these adapters failing?

:dunno: I think Kevin Lui (netto) cracked a set? Ask him.

edit: ^^

All I gotta say after everything else that has been said; I would never buy a bike with THREE different brake mount systems attatched.

Redundant anyone?

[Alex_M]

To get more ppl into the sport, especially in Canada, Simtra guys can sponsor or organize competitions, like "Simtra days". Also putting on demos at events like bike shows can attract more people into the sport, and the demos can have trials riders and street mtb riders riding together, cuz u guys have connection to that market too.

[netto]

where the pads sit depends on which brake arm you have.

brake adapters are kinda gay. they weigh a lot and arent that strong
i've broken bonz, heatsink, and another guy here broke the zhi ones in 2 months.

home made seems the way to go







or dual disc with tiny wheels:momaru:

[bogus111]

This thread might help http://www.trials-forum.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=102896

Personally, I would like, 1080, +30, 380, 72 deg headangle. I also have a fetish for seatstay yoke like the xtp has. Definitly better colors, preferably two color frames.
Weight isn't much of an issue to me.

[mattyv8]

in regards to graphics, I'll do up some more themes and show you, Kevin that sticker idea is great. Maybe have 2 styles, clean slick and bold.. and the other.. well who knows it could be anything. But just note - I dont think ive ever heard of any bike company that before it gets frames done asks for riders input on graphics.. im not too sure this is a good idea but im going for it, trials is a small community, why not do it up like this eh?

[WhiteRavenKS]

in regards to graphics, I'll do up some more themes and show you, Kevin that sticker idea is great. Maybe have 2 styles, clean slick and bold.. and the other.. well who knows it could be anything. But just note - I dont think ive ever heard of any bike company that before it gets frames done asks for riders input on graphics.. im not too sure this is a good idea but im going for it, trials is a small community, why not do it up like this eh?

:hs: teehehe.

specialized had all those way ugly graphics on their demo bikes this year which were not clear coated on like they always have been in the past- so if you liked the crap you could leaveit or if not, easily remove it. i think rock shox totems came with a big sticker pack so you could ugly them up however you wanted. having your choice of whole bike graphics to put on would be so awesome though. pretty much if you come up with something matt, i'd be into running it.

[flixlee]

I really like the feel of the ST-1 and there is a good chance it'll be my next bike. If there was a V option, I would definatly go that way (and pre-order too). I would like to see the elimination of shifter cable mounts and a tensioner hanger in front of the rear axle like Monty. It's a little less vulnerable and gives nice contact with the cog. A light version with butted main tubes would also be nice.

[eturt9]

After not reading all the pages of this..

I like the inverted white frame with the black inside and then with the bright green pin stripe.

[hopsalot]

Intergrated JamesB chain tensioner. I love the leaf spring tensioner. Have a solid mounting system on the drive chain stay. No more busted hangers.

[jackflash]

i think some horizontal drops would be nice to see, you've already got them on the psyco so i don't see any patent issues coming up, that's assuming theyre working well on there.

the other thing that would interest me would be a nice short street-trialsy setup, something like the psyco but with a +0 bottom bracket. see that in steel would just be beautiful, but it's hard to say what the demand for a frame like that would be like.

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

Thanks to all so far for your imput. I think we covered the grounds for the frame, but is there any other type of product you would like to see?

[flixlee]

A simple chain tensioner that can take a beating and a strong disc fork for 190mm rotor.

[Noel]

A simple chain tensioner that can take a beating and a strong disc fork for 190mm rotor.

x2 not so sure about the 190mm rotor but that is still fine

[multismith]

Christian,

Just curious are the copper brown anodized componants a big seller? I realize black sells the best but how does Simtra copper brown do overall? I purchased a Jim Brown Surly hubset for the same price as the black because vendor was out of black. I wasn't sure about this color at first but since has grown on me.

http://freewheelbike.com/merchant/589/images/site/jimbhub1.jpg

To think what would match these came up blank until I realized you guys offer handlebars in this color or close to it. I may get blasted but point being its nice to see different fresh ideas even if its just a color. Perhaps Simtra could Anodize the current ST-1 frame in black and or copper brown as well as the trials stem seen in white. Black is always needed and is a safe color but I'd purchase componants in that copper brown just to be different and it would be Simtra exclusive in the trials world from what I'v seen. It may be short lived but nobody never really know what take off and what flops. Perhaps do a few samples or limited edition production since you do handle bars arleady just through a frame in the vat with a stem to start with and post pictures. Its not for everyone but neither pink and purple and those colors are out there.

I'm just one consumer with an opinion who spends his money on this sport.

[WhiteRavenKS]

i'd still like to see a 2.25-ish pound fork with a steel steerer. no goofy rotor sizes for the mounts though. people can run adaptors if they need to. starting off with a standard mount makes for less headaches overall.

the market seems pretty saturated with boosters, bashrings, tensioners, junk like that. i guess i cant see those kinds of little products bringing in a lot of profit and they could just be taking up time and effort that could be better spent on bigger stuff like frame/fork/bars/stem, main parts more than little stuff.

i know 24" wheels are lame but it seems like heatsink is the only company doing them in a lower price range. it's them or high end custom only out there really. that new base frame looks good but definitely falls more to the expensive steel end of the market. a 24" frame and fork at a cheaper-than-custom price point could potentially sell fairly well. that stuff seems to have caught on in the uk, i think availability is the only reason it hasnt been bigger here. lots of people are riding for fun than riding for comps these days so the 24" play bike might be something you can swoop in on. just a thought.

[Ravenholm]

i'd still like to see a 2.25-ish pound fork with a steel steerer. no goofy rotor sizes for the mounts though. people can run adaptors if they need to. starting off with a standard mount makes for less headaches overall.

the market seems pretty saturated with boosters, bashrings, tensioners, junk like that. i guess i cant see those kinds of little products bringing in a lot of profit and they could just be taking up time and effort that could be better spent on bigger stuff like frame/fork/bars/stem, main parts more than little stuff.

i know 24" wheels are lame but it seems like heatsink is the only company doing them in a lower price range. it's them or high end custom only out there really. that new base frame looks good but definitely falls more to the expensive steel end of the market. a 24" frame and fork at a cheaper-than-custom price point could potentially sell fairly well. that stuff seems to have caught on in the uk, i think availability is the only reason it hasnt been bigger here. lots of people are riding for fun than riding for comps these days so the 24" play bike might be something you can swoop in on. just a thought.

Yeah but most of the chain tensioners out there are either garbage, or rediculously expensive.

[stpatr3k]

Why not make a simtra brake booster/vbrake adaptor that can be optional for the frame (st-2)?

For me the price makes me stay away from Simtra, then again I live far far away with different economics.

[free_rideman]

I don't know how much you sell of your other frames (the non trials specific ones) but for some reason I don't think that many.

I think if you make an ST1 and then a more street friendly steel trials frame with v brakes mounts you could have more customers. Kind of like those old planet x frames (zebdi). Maybe even with a seatpost or something.

The beauty of this bike would be the simplicity, reliablity, and fun of a steel bike. Not that many of us are pros that need a very specific professional type frame. A fun street oriented rig would be sweet. And since not many companies make those now, it would be your market. I know I would want one. But for this frame make the price lower.... $400.

Some geo to think about (IMHO I don't know what others would want):
1040 wb
395 stays
0 or +10 bb rise
73 head angle

I like vertical dropouts the most. A BT type movable dropout is kind of cool, but I don't think it is as reliable as a regular vertical dropout.

v-brake/maggie mounts: If you guys can think of a way to make replaceable thread inserts in your frame (ie crank inserts for pedal threads) and then the customer can choose to use the threads for a maggie, or threads for a v-brake. It might add weight but if anyone ever strips out their threads, they can always buy new inserts.

Graphics- simple graphics the better.....

Oh, and a fork is a must. I would love a steel one.

[Ravenholm]

Make a fucken stealth bomber type graphic. Like all flat black. With gloss black letters or something. That would be baller.

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

Make a fucken stealth bomber type graphic. Like all flat black. With gloss black letters or something. That would be baller.

We already have this...
Pic is not that great, but that is our stealthy look. Gun Metal grey with black graphics
http://www.hbtrials.com/photos/simtra/simtra-st-1-side3.jpg

[jackflash]

i agree with the whole street trials setup, whether it's a 24" like all the stuff over in the uk, or somehting like the old zebdis. basically a short bike, but wihtout the bb drop you see in just about every "street" mtb

[free_rideman]

i agree with the whole street trials setup, whether it's a 24" like all the stuff over in the uk, or somehting like the old zebdis. basically a short bike, but wihtout the bb drop you see in just about every "street" mtb


Its good to see some one else agrees with me.