Most suitable rear cog for trials use [Archive]

Dekes

08-14-2007, 12:22 PM

Since i want to replace my chain, I must as well replace my surly cog because it doesn't work with new chains. A side from the wrong dimensions of the surly, I like the beefyness of it.

So I need an 18t cog that is suitable for trials, it shouldn't skip, it should be beefy, it should have a wide base so it doesn't destroy my hubbody.

surly skips
on one skips
chris king "looks" flimsy and only suitable for XC
shimano DX has a narrow base
Boone is rivetted together, i don't think that's really good.
BT cog is cheap, doesn't skip cause it was built out of frustration that the surly skipped so bad :rofl:, looks beefy, has a superwide body. But it only comes in 15T and 16T

Singlestar looks awesome, has superwide body, will never skip but they look somewhat weak aswell because of the weight saving holes which you can see in this picture:
http://www.singlespeed.nl/catalog/images/singlestar_18er.jpg

All other cogs that I know of (niner, endless) are aluminum and therefor unsuitable.

Anyone have any input on this?

felix

08-14-2007, 12:28 PM

King steel cog.

Sir_Crackien

08-14-2007, 12:34 PM

gusset steel cogs, even the shimano ones if you have a steel freehub. echo use ot make one, bt did/dies bt.

there are many to choose from

loffa

08-14-2007, 12:47 PM

If DX has a too narrow base then gor a King Steel cog. It will deffinately hold up and will run fine with your chain. You probably had problems with an aluminium one.

Dekes

08-14-2007, 12:48 PM

gusset steel cogs, even the shimano ones if you have a steel freehub. echo use ot make one, bt did/dies bt.

there are many to choose from

too narrow, i have an aluminum hubbody.

Dekes

08-14-2007, 12:49 PM

If DX has a too narrow base then gor a King Steel cog. It will deffinately hold up and will run fine with your chain. You probably had problems with an aluminium one.

No but aluminum wears too fast. Even for XC.

Giant1118

08-14-2007, 01:00 PM

steel cog at 5 dollars go buy one. I had a king steel cog skipped all the fucking time because it wore out too fast, changed to a cheap ass 14t steel cog, works wonders and comes off my king hub fine with a few wacks

AndyT

08-14-2007, 01:21 PM

1990s shimano steel. Kings are POS....

and I run mine on an alum hub body, i can get it off...I had a harder time getting the king off.

lucky13

08-14-2007, 01:50 PM

gusset steel cogs, even the shimano ones if you have a steel freehub. echo use ot make one, bt did/dies bt.

there are many to choose from

:ugh: If you like having your freehub eaten alive. Even if the freehub is steel,.. you will dig those in bigtime. No biggie if you never plan on removing it again.

carnagr

08-14-2007, 02:32 PM

My steel King cog has zero signs of wear after a few months use now. It's a beautiful piece of machining, I'd go for one of those.

afrobot

08-14-2007, 02:56 PM

My surly skipped for a few minutes. Don't know why. Just let your chain bed in and it will be fine . Any wide based ,non aluminum cog will be fine .

Dekes

08-14-2007, 03:15 PM

My surly skipped for a few minutes. Don't know why. Just let your chain bed in and it will be fine . Any wide based ,non aluminum cog will be fine .

It's not supposed to break in really.

eturt9

08-14-2007, 03:28 PM

CK isn't flimsy and that one above looks like it weighs 40lbs

Dekes

08-14-2007, 03:53 PM

CK isn't flimsy and that one above looks like it weighs 40lbs

it doesn't weigh that much and i don't care really, it's a drivetrain component

Yurich

08-14-2007, 04:36 PM

I'd be worried about breaking all my bearngs and snapping the axle and 4 chains before a steel King goes

Giant1118

08-14-2007, 04:48 PM

mine went in about 3 months, it was a 14tooth steel king cog, was worn to the point that it would skip whenever i would pedal with any strength

Gaz

08-14-2007, 05:48 PM

I'd be worried about breaking all my bearngs and snapping the axle and 4 chains before a steel King goes

CK isn't flimsy and that one above looks like it weighs 40lbs

My steel King cog has zero signs of wear after a few months use now. It's a beautiful piece of machining, I'd go for one of those.

King steel cog.

:werd:

King cogs rock. That cog you posted looks like a piece of farm machinery.

Dekes

08-14-2007, 06:34 PM

mine went in about 3 months, it was a 14tooth steel king cog, was worn to the point that it would skip whenever i would pedal with any strength

you probably rode it with a worn chain? A worn chain can wear out the hardest steel cog in the world in a couple of rides.

chronic

08-14-2007, 08:27 PM

I've had my SS king cog for almost two years now, it weighs 48grams and is far from flimsy. I've bought countless chains and honest to god the only wear involved with this thing is that on my drive shell. No skipping either.

So, I like king...derrrr

Sir_Crackien

08-15-2007, 01:58 PM

a well made steel freehub body will not have a dig in problem. shitmanos don't my woodman didn't and my current (cheap hub) doesn't have a dig in problem. the problem is in that companies like to use metals that look cool but are still too soft

Giant1118

08-15-2007, 05:31 PM

you probably rode it with a worn chain? A worn chain can wear out the hardest steel cog in the world in a couple of rides.

if only that were the case

brand new chain, i think i changed it like 2 times in the time i had the cog, third time i put on the new chain and it was skipping like a school girl so i changed the cog and it was good. Looking at the cog u can tell it was worn quite a bit

Dekes

08-15-2007, 08:30 PM

if only that were the case

brand new chain, i think i changed it like 2 times in the time i had the cog, third time i put on the new chain and it was skipping like a school girl so i changed the cog and it was good. Looking at the cog u can tell it was worn quite a bit

weird :eek3:

Chris

08-15-2007, 09:09 PM

the singlestar cog (picture) is an expensive piece of crap.. at least the ones I got for testing. I destroyed it within a few seconds! Several teeth were just ripped off... :hsugh: Same for the one Cryo Cube had...

My king steel cog skipped like shit... brand new chain and everything... :dunno:

Rennen makes a 5mm wide 18t cog - it's aluminium though...

You could also try this one here http://www.bmx-onlineshop.de/d_36016_Singlespeedshop_Kassetten_Adapter___Ritzel 2553.htm

I had one and it didn't skip... but I couldn't really trust it, as someone broke it after a short time, If I remember right... so I sold it..

dengenerate

08-15-2007, 11:42 PM

the answer lies here:

http://www.echobike.com/images/partspics/threadoncogs/18t.jpg

chronic

08-15-2007, 11:49 PM

My king steel cog skipped like shit... brand new chain and everything... :dunno:

Thats fucked. Somebody must have had the gearing chord off or something. Sucks though, I've never had problems, a friend of mine has had his for a long time too, and I ride hard on my drive train. So...bummer.

dengenerate

08-16-2007, 01:16 AM

Thats fucked.

for real. sure it wasn't a tension or alignment problem? i feel like king wouldn't send out a mismachined part. and cog profiles aren't rocket science, so i don't feel like that'd be the problem. i haven't examined enough cogs to know whether different manufacturers have different offsets. maybe the king was offset a bit and needed a different set of spacers? :dunno:

Dekes

08-16-2007, 02:52 AM

Chris

08-16-2007, 05:19 AM

for real. sure it wasn't a tension or alignment problem? i feel like king wouldn't send out a mismachined part. and cog profiles aren't rocket science, so i don't feel like that'd be the problem. i haven't examined enough cogs to know whether different manufacturers have different offsets. maybe the king was offset a bit and needed a different set of spacers? :dunno:

Everything was aligned perfectly.. but I often read that the king cogs need a certain time to bed in.. but to be honest, I don't want a cog that doesn't work right from the start... can't trust it then...
From looking at the cog, I'd say it's the shape of the teeth that caused the skipping. The teeth are slighty different than on other cogs... I couldn't think of any other reason...

About the singlestar. Wasn't this some manufacturing error? How long was that ago?

Yeah that must have been a bad manufacturing... pretty strange, considering the manufacturing process took reaaaaally long and was quite unique and expensive... It was about one or two years ago...

Dekes

08-16-2007, 05:22 AM

Everything was aligned perfectly.. but I often read that the king cogs need a certain time to bed in.. but to be honest, I don't want a cog that doesn't work right from the start... can't trust it then...
From looking at the cog, I'd say it's the shape of the teeth that caused the skipping. The teeth are slighty different than on other cogs... I couldn't think of any other reason...

Yeah that must have been a bad manufacturing... pretty strange, considering the manufacturing process took reaaaaally long and was quite unique and expensive... It was about one or two years ago...

Was it the steel, alu or ti cog? I was going for the steel one, it's expensive at 80 euro but if it works, I can justify it. It looks beefier than the chris king and you can probably punch Marcel Hahn in the face :momaru: if it would skip since he did a lot of trouble optimizing the tooth profile.

Dekes

08-16-2007, 05:32 AM

I once asked an online bikeshop to measure all their 18t cogs and freewheels, the results were astonishing, only white industries and singlestar had an exact correct diametre, most cogs were too big, they didn't measure a king though. An 18t cog should be 65mm in diametre. A shimano 8speed casette cog taken out of an 8speed casette measures exactly 65mm. My surly measures 65.8mm which is why it skips.

Chris

08-16-2007, 05:33 AM

Dekes

08-16-2007, 05:58 AM

Steel one. As I said, it didn't skip... so just give it a try. From what I've heard, none of the other cogs he's sold back then, broke. So I must have had bad luck or whatever.. pretty scary though, when you kill that thing within a few seconds :hs: And I don't really like the amount of holes he drilled right next to the teeth.. Marcel is a really nice guy, just talk to him. Maybe he can customize the cog a little bit.

If the drilling of the holes is a separate process, then it probably won't cost more. I have no clue really why all companies drill their cogs, it must dave like 3grams or so. My buddy used casette cogs from an 8 speed casette back in the days before he bought a BMX cog. He broke his both arms once when it shattered in pieces and he has a whole box of like shattered 8speed cog pieces coming from about 15 different cogs.

Hence why i'm a bit concerned about drilling cogs or cutting pieces out of it.

Dekes

08-16-2007, 05:59 AM

Oh, anyone tried the BT cog? I might switch to 18-16 if it's really good.

dengenerate

08-16-2007, 06:17 AM

I often read that the king cogs need a certain time to bed in..

it kind of makes sense they would oversize it to allow for initial deformation, but i wonder how other manufactures compensate for this? i'm sure there are better ways than that.

Dekes

08-16-2007, 06:24 AM

it kind of makes sense they would oversize it to allow for initial deformation, but i wonder how other manufactures compensate for this? i'm sure there are better ways than that.

A drivetrain should perform at his best when being new or bedding in shouldn't be going together with chainskip, but rather a bit of noise. Once your chain has reached 0.75% stretch you should replace it. A 0.60-0.70% stretched chain still works ok with a correctly sized cog. There's no need for slightly larger singlespeed cogs for compensating chainstretch.

dengenerate

08-16-2007, 10:19 AM

i was talking more about local deformation in the valleys of the cog. i agree everything should just fit when new. the tolerances are fairly open.

Sir_Crackien

08-16-2007, 12:49 PM

the best running SS cog that i have ever used are byfar the shimano bmx ones. they never skip, i haven't seen one break, and they seem to wear for ever.

Dekes

08-16-2007, 12:59 PM

the best running SS cog that i have ever used are byfar the shimano bmx ones. they never skip, i haven't seen one break, and they seem to wear for ever.

Yeah but i'm afraid it will still dig in a steel body. I mailed the edco company and they will provide me a steel body.

Sir_Crackien

08-16-2007, 08:24 PM

depending on the steel that they use digging on a steel body should be pretty much nonexistant. i do know that some companies use a fairly soft steel though and that could be a problem.

btw if this helps i find that most cassette bodies with a black anti axo. coating are of the harder steel. also the one that have the silver plating are as well. atleast that is what i have found