that prototype

[tubender]

I built another prototype. This one is 1080, 72, 378, +15. The frame weight is just less than 4.5 lbs. The drops are 9mm thick. I am not sure about crank and tire clearence but I can make adjustments (I have a saw too!) as needed.

I have a nice brake mount designed, just need to get it machined and welded. The rear is exceptionally stiff and it should really be responsive and have great brake feedback. I will also add some small tubular gussets once I have a wheel with a big rim mounted up. On paper it has 3mm around a 2.7 tire mounted on a 48mm rim. (or something like that.) I plan on bringing it to Rockport at the end of the month so some will see it live in a couple of weeks..

[Bryan]

awesome... homemade and I personally like the way it looks. do you live in the northeast? are you considering selling frames? your toe needs to be cropped...

[madbiker66]

Those dropouts....:eek3danc:

[hopsalot]

Very nice, kinda like the Vario only much cleaner looking.

[stefan]

fine work !
are you designing a bike for TRA ??

[Sir_Crackien]

WOW that is a pretty frame. you would never know that it is a prototype with that kinda construction and detail!!

keep up the would!

[rush]

Very nice indeed.

Dropouts are insane.

[kobrakai]

looks good, but 365mm stays?

[tubender]

sorry, 378mm..

[RomanC]

Needs the brace on the disc side but looks very good otherwise. Awesome job.

[egidio]

nice! it looks bulletproof.

[tubender]

the drops look pretty huge but they fit in a 90X90mm box. I have been making bikes for a while for fun and profit. I make regular MTB frames (Sinister) and have a pretty well equipped shop. The construction of the drop is such that it uses the surface of the seatstay tube as a gusset. Because of the joint type and high profile (size) of the tube there is little chance of it coming off or cracking. The frame will be tested by qualified riders as some have already offered assistance in design and evaluation.

I do plan to evolve this design and at some point offer frames to interested riders. This is only the third prototype and I still have much to learn about trials.

[Solomon Grundy]

Tubender are you FTW, or just work with him? A Sinister trials bike would be on my must have list!!!!:coold:

[Weetbix]

Its starting to look really professional now, good work.

[halfazn]

Awesome

[Ebon Dragon]

Looks like a solid frame, I especially like the dropouts. It isn't really easy on the eyes, but if you could find places to shave some weight I bet you it would ride really nice.

[dengenerate]

phenominal work. besides a well-engineered design it's super clean looking, and your welds are sick nasty. looks robo-welded. it's exciting that it looks like this while you still admit to lacking familiarity with trials. it'll only get better from here. i'm surprised more frame manufacturers don't go with square tubing in the rear. besides looking sweet, it should stiffen it up nicely.

[FlatFender]

wow, those welds are fucking georgeous. absolutely georgeous.

[tubender]

Ya, I am FTW. (frank the welder). Thanks for the kind words of support. I am realy enjoying building these trials frames. hopefully we can make it a good performer also!

[netto]

i think you can reduce the weight by not using the vario frame design. maybe a cnced bb yoke and seat stay yoke, and smaller seat stays as well?

the frame certainly looks quality

[hophopsnap]

best home made frame yet?

my vote..

[eastside]

Ya, I am FTW. (frank the welder). Thanks for the kind words of support. I am realy enjoying building these trials frames. hopefully we can make it a good performer also!



Nice! I have a Spooky Cycles in my garage that I will never part with. It was my first custom "trials" rig in 1997.

[Unissamog]

best home made frame yet?

my vote..


Admittedly with the amount of time Frank spends in his shop, you might call it a home, but it isn't exactly like building it in the living room.

Frank, you have been busy since wednesday when you were machining the drops. I'll definately have to stop in and see it this week.

[dylan]

excellent. except the bb needs some solid facing to get that weld off.

[kobrakai]

Ya, I am FTW. (frank the welder).

:eek3:

it's exciting that you are getting interested in trials frames... cool man.

[Mr_Penut]

very cool

[Stikman]

Wow, a legend of the MTB scene involved in our humble little community! It can only be good, especially with such beautiful craftmanship.

Welcome Frank, and good luck ironing out your design :thumbsup:

[multismith]

1080, 72, 378, +15.....ideal geo and with dual disc:yum: If there was only one geo to make this would certainly please the masses. In regards to the crank. just make sure frame works with a Middleburn RS7 trials crank please :x: Nice work in deed:bigthumb: Oh and don't forget the about the 4 bolt mag mounts.

[yay]

Excellent initiative from FTW. I cant wait to see a trials frame from you available for purchase.

[LanceT]

From the deepest, darkest forests of Vermont comes...Deng Slayer!!!:run:

Looks great Frank. Best dropouts I have ever seen.

Forget about frames with holes drilled everywhere. I want something rideable that will last.

Get that thing built up right away.

[dengenerate]

this is just a thought, but you were talking about performance and stiffness. it'd be nice if you could quantify it beyond rider feel. if you constrain the headtube - the jig would probably work great - and install a long bar (5ft or so) off one side through the dropout, and hang a weight on the opposite end of the bar (say 50lb), you can put a dial indicator on the dropout and measure the amount of frame twist. compare it to a couple of the other more popular trials bikes that your potential customers are familiar with, and you've got another solid selling point. or at worst an idea of how to improve.

[LukeRainbird]

Looks really nice, other than those seatstays
I know it's very Vario stylee, and that's the kind of look you're after, but they just look a little out of place on what could be one of the most gorgeous frames in ages!
Slim those down a touch, and possibly a little off the dropouts, and you're onto a winner

Needs to be 1070, 380, +20, 72 though ;)

(Please note, all of the above is my opinion, and so will no doubt get slated :P)

[johnglazer]

F.T.W. ftw

looks amazing!

[Solomon Grundy]

Ya, I am FTW. (frank the welder). Thanks for the kind words of support. I am realy enjoying building these trials frames. hopefully we can make it a good performer also!
I had the opportunity to meet you back in 96 when you were still in Mesa, AZ. I was a friend of Greg and Dallas (who worked for you). I've been lusting after one of your bikes ever since. Let us know when the bike will be available so I can sell my left nut!!!!

[tubender]

thanks!! I usually face the BB after heat treating. Right now the material is soft and gummy from welding

I can actually rig a stiffness gauge to measure flex on my alignment table as you mentioned.. will I ever actually do it? who knows, I touch a lot of bike frames and this one feels unusually stiff. I do have a used trials frame at the shop but I already cut it up to see where it was failing..

I will have this one and it's twin sisters (there are three) done for Rockport with at least one available for test rides.

I also made a "special" set of drops with thinner walls. I will hit the scales with the machined parts before welding the others together.

I can't wait to ride this thing.

[Unissamog]

I can't wait to ride this thing.

That makes a few of us!!!!

[trialsin usa]

I like the fact that you can use derailleur hanger.... or not. Also the fact that it has VERTICAL dropouts (during quick wheel changes there is no futzing with lining up the rotor in the caliper). At the end of the day, whether the tension system is hanging off the back for below..... its trials... it can all be smashed...but vertical drop out keeps everything lined up, every time.

Stiffer frames translate into less energy lost, and more precise ride (this holds true for any type of bike). The Vario was one stiff frame...... and this is looking like it is shaping up to be at least in that league.

Now, question is.....what colors?!...ha, ha, ha.

[tubender]

I like the fact that you can use derailleur hanger.... or not. Also the fact that it has VERTICAL dropouts (during quick wheel changes there is no futzing with lining up the rotor in the caliper). At the end of the day, whether the tension system is hanging off the back for below..... its trials... it can all be smashed...but vertical drop out keeps everything lined up, every time.

Stiffer frames translate into less energy lost, and more precise ride (this holds true for any type of bike). The Vario was one stiff frame...... and this is looking like it is shaping up to be at least in that league.

Now, question is.....what colors?!...ha, ha, ha.

any single coat color.. I think candy etc. colors would be a waste on something to bash against rocks. I am thinking chevy engine block orange for mine.

[aki]

Looking forward to seeing the new frame at OTN Days :)

[afrobot]

best home made frame yet?

my vote..
Ho-made , or custom?? I'm still more impressed with every groundup . It has promise the ST junction is a little cluttered.Dropouts are delicious!!

[Elan]

it looks hideous, but the build quality looks amazing, e-amazing.

[CoppellStereo]

i love the headtubes and gussets. you should try to make a chain tensioner that doesnt hang off the back (since they always get smashed, atleast with me riding)

[Unissamog]

i love the headtubes and gussets. you should try to make a chain tensioner that doesnt hang off the back (since they always get smashed, atleast with me riding)

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[rndm*dv8n]

FTW on trials frames? Yeah no kidding, cool indeed. Made my day.

[ash-kennard]

that is beast

[toyota200x]

Best looking custom bike I have seen. Have you made any progress on getting it built? Will you make me one?

[uncleantrialsinner]

FTW - did I meet you at Pedro's Fest? I had the Monty mod.
regardless - WOW on those welds!

[manimal]

so uhhh, when can we see it built up?

[tubender]

so uhhh, when can we see it built up?
Well, I am working on procuring the needed parts. It should be pretty soon. Hopefully by the end of the month.. I did all the "finishing touches" on the frame today and they will go to heat treating Tuesday. I am thinking about a "john Deere" paint scheme like the tractors, I have a green rear rim anyway so it's a start.

[Unissamog]

Not the best pic, but the brake bosses are on.....

http://fareast4x4.com/brake.jpg

The happy family.

http://fareast4x4.com/frames.jpg

[Dang!]

very nice.
Nice welds too.
So where abouts in VT?
I grew up there...

[tubender]

Bellows Falls VT. down near bratt,, Thanks!

[steve_v]

Cool frame, can't wait to see how the build progresses. I'm going to tell my wife that this frame will make me better at trials.

I have some family in Putney, it's cool to see all the local kids on Sinisters

[Dang!]

Bellows Falls VT. down near bratt,, Thanks!
is the diner still open there? I grew up in Norwich, spent most of my time at the Four Aces in W.R.J., but would venture down to Bellows Falls just to hit that diner. It was one of very few that had a Marble counter top if I remember correctly.
Mad props for making it happen in VT! It's one of the best places, but tough to make a living.

[Unissamog]

is the diner still open there? I grew up in Norwich, spent most of my time at the Four Aces in W.R.J., but would venture down to Bellows Falls just to hit that diner. It was one of very few that had a Marble counter top if I remember correctly.
Mad props for making it happen in VT! It's one of the best places, but tough to make a living.

If you mean the Miss Bellows Falls, in the middle of town, then yes it is still there, and serving.

[trauma100]

:run: :run: :run:

Not the best pic, but the brake bosses are on.....

http://fareast4x4.com/brake.jpg

The happy family.

http://fareast4x4.com/frames.jpg
:run: :run: :run:

[AndyT]

which ones mine :hsugh:


Any crank clearance issue with that chainstay?

[Unissamog]

which ones mine :hsugh:


I know which one is mine!!:D:D


Any crank clearance issue with that chainstay?

That is being checked with a set of cranks that are coming in soon. The stays will be "adjusted" as necessary.

[tubender]

I anealed (softened) the chainstays expecting to have to do a slight crimp. I have some cranks coming and it's a race to see if (1) the cranks arrive before I leave to Boston for heat treating (2) I lose sack and crimp just to be safe or (3) just go ahead and heat treat and if the cranks hit, slam the garage door on them a few times to fix the problem. I don't actually crimp with the garage door, I just always wanted to say that.

There is a new resturant next door the the miss diner, called the "wurst place" they make custom hot dogs. It's pretty good also.

Living in VT is different for sure. There are organic farms everywhere, people drive tractors to go shop and the guy agross the street sells heroin.

Once we complete the evaluation period and commit to this design we will make some available through trialsin.com

ALSO my shop is always open to guests and we have some sick boulder natty within range of an 18T

[David Weyman]

Tubender are you FTW, or just work with him? A Sinister trials bike would be on my must have list!!!!:coold:

No kidding!!! I still ride my Spooky Metalhead every day to the river. Frank you rule! One thing though horizontal dropouts as an option.

[miker27]

i was going to sell my stock, but i kind of need one of these
-kid riding the px ghost at the nh comp

[tubender]

I thought about horizontal drops quite a bit. The main reason I chose the vertical with a spring-loaded tensioner (still in development) is that it seems that even the slightest variation in cog diameter creates a situation where the chain gets looser and tighter as the system turns. I figured, trials riders seem to need absolute predictability when it comes to machinery performance and even the slightest loss of chain tension could spell disaster.

Mike, are you going to Rockport at the end of the month?

I had a metalhead, it got swiped. If you want to sell yours, or it finally dies, let me know.. I need one for my collection.

[Chaotic3vil]

really liked your bike... looks very well done! I'm wondering which grade alum your using and its weight..

:bigthumb:

[tubender]

really liked your bike... looks very well done! I'm wondering which grade alum your using and its weight..

:bigthumb:

6061 T-6 aircraft drawn tubing. I think I posted the weight somewhere in this thread. I think it was under 4.5.. might have been 4.25 lbs.. I forget now..

Thanks!!

[multismith]

Oooh ...what cranks are coming, Middleburn RS7 ? :x:

[tubender]

na, I wish..

[metalhack]

Oh my.....I want one. Wheres the list? Sign me up please!

[tubender]

www.trialsin.com thanks for the props!!

[linz]

hey want to make me one? i need a frame with a really long wheel base as i am massive
how much ? Aus $

[tubender]

hey want to make me one? i need a frame with a really long wheel base as i am massive
how much ? Aus $

send me an email at verticult at comcast dot net, I will be happy to discuss options with you.

[Thom_H]

Frank is it true spooky bikes is making a comeback ?

[tubender]

Frank is it true spooky bikes is making a comeback ?

There is a guy Mickey who used to ride a Spooky and was friends with the old owners who wanted to restart the brand. I don't know the details of the arrangement but someone else told me he was having bikes produced at a large bike factory. So, yes you will see the logo again if what I am told is true

During an interview in Dirt UK, Mickey told the guys that I was making the Spooky frames. This was and is not true.

[David Weyman]

If Frank didn't weld it, it ain't what you want....spooky logo on a mass produced bike....Criminal!!!

[aki]

At OTN Dayz Frank brought the Sinister trials bike. The pictures don't do any justice, it was one amazing looking frame. One of a kind I must say.

http://www.puretrials.com/trials/images/sinister.jpg

[psyber_0ptix]

Those dropouts look amazing.

pricing?

[toyota200x]

Did anyone get to ride it?

[aki]

Nope...no drivetrain :)

[MegamoMidwest]

so it looks like you crimped for safety, eh? or did you find some clearance issues?

absolutely beautiful frame, by the way.

[codereaver]

So now the question is are they going to put the "Sinister" Price sticker on it?

[trialsin usa]

So now the question is are they going to put the "Sinister" Price sticker on it?

Price for the frame will be around $800. Hand built by FTW in North America.

[Weetbix]

Wow! That looks damn nice

[Solomon Grundy]

Price for the frame will be around $800. Hand built by FTW in North America.
Must... Find... Buyer... For KIDNEY!!!!!


I would never imagine paying $800 dollars for a trials frame, except for a FTW/Sinister creation:coold:

[TheGhost]

will we be able to get them without maggie mounts and just disc?:bigthumb:

[AndyT]

$800 sounds about right for probably one of the best made frames ever..?

[tubender]

thanks again!! Ya, I wasn't sure about the crank clearence so I crimped at the last moment. I also didn't have a rear wheel built at the point that the frame was assembled so I made it wide enough to fit for sure. I am going to "dog leg" the chainstays for room to use the integrated tensioner "upward" rather that pulling the chain down for more wrap, more crank room and room for a monster rear rotor.

If you want something custom, let Tim at Trialsin know and place a deposit. I will do my best to accomodate requests. leaving something off is pretty easy but I request a deposit for any custom work so I don't get stuck with some 20/26/rolhoff/that fits only a lefty fork freak machine.

I have been getting a pretty strong showing of interest. I expect to have a small batch of frames in plenty of time for the winter holidays. Please let trialsin know if you are interested, I am only going to do a couple of batches a year.

I will post a few photos soon that should satisfy any questions regarding my claims of superior frame stiffness. I did a bit of testing and was shocked myself.

I think you stiffness freaks better bring a roll of towels (or a bucket) and a smoke when you sit down at the computer tomorrow.

[rush]

:eek5:

[trauma100]

Franks integrated tensioner will set trends, quite baller..... look for deng copy's as soon as the first pic is posted im thinking.

Looking forward to getting the last Trials frame I will ever need

[LanceT]

Stiffness coupled with a custom built integrated chain tensioner sounds like the best thing ever. If the partially built pics from OTN Dayz are any indicator, this is going to be a must have frame. Bring it on.

[Biketrialbrasil]

awesome work...i liked it.

[lucky13]

Checking my piggy bank,...

[psyber_0ptix]

patent the built in tensioner and collect on copycat licensing :bigthumb:

[Unissamog]

I rode the proto today. Felt DAMN nice. I don't have any time on other modern bikes to compare, but definately the best trials bike I have ever thrown a leg over.

The tensioner is great, a nice little design that is tiny compared most others on the market, plus it doesn't mount to a der. hanger!!:bigthumb:

[tubender]

patent the built in tensioner and collect on copycat licensing :bigthumb:


14 G's for the domestic and international patent then chase the infidels for the money..not me man..

[AndyT]

but we all know trials is a gold mine!

[tubender]

but we all know trials is a gold mine!

ya, I just need a bigger shovel..

[eturt9]

Sick. I know its been said somewhere in past few pages, but whats the geo?

Looks something like 1080-5, +20-30, 380 i thinks

[tubender]

the BB is +15. and the rest as you mentioned

[David Weyman]

14 G's for the domestic and international patent then chase the infidels for the money..not me man..
Right!...........Patents are expensive!!

[Elan]

make me an exact copy of the 04 koxx XTP long and ill pay you $$

[Christian@simtrabikes.com]

Very nice design ideas, I like it very much!

[tubender]

thanks Christian!

[stpatr3k]

Frank can I ask what is annealing (?) and hardening? Thanks

[Unissamog]

Frank can I ask what is annealing (?) and hardening? Thanks

Annealing is used to make the tubing basically uniform in strength, since when it was welded the ends saw high heat whereas the middle didn't, so at that stage the tube has different strength propertied along it's length. This process also makes the tubing very flexible, so then there is the hardening part of heat treating, where through a heating and conrolled cooling the metal becomes harder and therefore useable as a bike.



From wikipedia.....
Annealing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing) is a technique used to recover cold work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_work) and relax stresses within a metal. Annealing typically results in a soft, ductile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductility) metal. When an annealed part is allowed to cool in the furnace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furnace), it is called a "full anneal" heat treatment. When an annealed part is removed from the furnace and allowed to cool in air, it is called a "normalizing" heat treatment. During annealing, small grains recrystallize to form larger grains. In precipitation hardening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precipitation_hardening) alloys, precipitates dissolve into the matrix, "solutionizing" the alloy.

Heat treatment is a method used to alter the physical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_property), and sometimes chemical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_property), properties of a material. The most common application is metallurgical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy). Heat treatments are also used in the manufacture of many other materials, such as glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass). Heat treatment involves the use of heating or chilling, normally to extreme temperatures, to achieve a desired result such as hardening or softening of a material. Heat treatment techniques include annealing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_%28metallurgy%29), case hardening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_hardening), precipitation strengthening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precipitation_strengthening), tempering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering) and quenching (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quench).

[tubender]

basically what was just said is correct. You can anneal a piece of metal to bend it without cracking. Hardening is basically reversing the process. when we heat treat the frames, they go in soft in the weld areas and through heating and cooling we are able to align them quickly without harming the material and then bring them back to full hardness.