Building a bike

[Vicc]

hi there. i was wondering what kind of parts i should buy to build my own bike. i started doing a little trial about 4-5 years ago (yeah i was 14 :P) but i was mainly doing trail riding and that's what i got used to. then i moved to the USA and haven't done anything ever since. i wanted to start riding a bike again so recently (1-2 months ago) i bought a hardtrail bike. a trek 4300. it's okay for trail riding and i tried doing trial tricks on it too, but it's too heavy (around 28-30 lbs.) it cost me about $400 when i bought it and after a few upgrades it was more like an $800-900 bike now. now to get to the point. i want a bike that is light so i could improve at trial (i have no intentions of becoming a professional, i just like to hop around sometimes :)), but i also want a bike that's durable for trail riding and dirt jumping. i don't know if it's a weird combination but some of my friends did this. if you could suggest me some lightweight parts for a new bike i'd really appreciate it :)
i guess a bike around 20 lbs would be alright?
i don't know if parts from my current bike could be of use, so if you need a list just ask and i'll gladly post it.

[johnglazer]

you could look at something like this
http://observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30122

[Vicc]

you could look at something like this
http://observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30122

that look's a bit too serious for me. i want it to lean a bit more towards trail riding. i usually hang out at the shop where i bought my bike, they're really great guys and sell me parts for cheap so i don't want to "betray" them by buying stuff from other shops. they're dealing with giant, specialized, and cannondale bikes, so i was wondering if any of those manufacturers have a frame that would be good for both trail and trial. they deal with other manufacturers too but i don't think they're worth mentioning in this case( http://www.bellbikes.com/html/bikes.htm ) i had my eye on a specialized stumpjumper comp 15'5" and then i'd just switch out all the parts, but they told me the cannondale has the lightest frames for hardtrail so i'm not sure what to do.

i don't actually want to spend $1700 on a bike just for the frame, but i thought that i would wait until fall for the scratch & dent sale if that is indeed a frame that would fulfill my needs.

i'm looking for these parts.

frame - light and durable around 15" (possibly from specialized or cannondale?)
crankset - the one i currently have is a shimano hollowtech fc-460. i took off the chainrings, only left the middle and put up a salsa ring, not sure if this can be used in the future.
rear derailleur
seat pole
tires/wheels - light and durable
front fork - i'm going to need front suspension for the trail, but i was wondering if there was a light fork with suspension, that can take a lot of pressure
stem
rear casette - i want to be able to take off some rings.
breaks - right now i'm using avid hydraulic juicy seven rear and front breaks

this is a picture of the bike i have now. what i really want is a bike similar to this, maybe a size smaller, and about 10 lbs lighter :P
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb296/Vicc88/bike1.jpg

[bouncingbabyboy]

This is my bike building story http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=22224

[netto]

theres more to how a bike feels that how long the seat tube is

[samtrials]

i think getting a bike like that down to 20 lb might be a bit of a challenge.

[Vicc]

theres more to how a bike feels that how long the seat tube is
oh wow i did not understand 95% of what you guys were talking about there. that's a shame cause i knew much more about bikes before. i only started riding bikes 2 months ago after 4 years of sitting on my butt so i have absolutely no idea about the stuff in that thread. :(
i'm gonna try to understand it though :)

theres more to how a bike feels that how long the seat tube is
i cut off half of my seat tube so i don't want to use it anywhere but on the trail. besides when i'm riding in the city i'm always standing.

i think getting a bike like that down to 20 lb might be a bit of a challenge.
i want a completely new hardtrail bike that i can use for trial. if i can't use the parts from my bike, i'll just sell it on ebay. i'm not certain how much a bike should weight anyways. i just assumed that 20 lb bike would make my job a lot easier.
everyone keeps telling me that my bike is light, but compared to a 45 lb full suspension downhill bike.. anything would be considered light

[Povi]

20 lbs is extremely light for a bike anyway

[Vicc]

20 lbs is extremely light for a bike anyway
okay so how much should it be?

[netto]

i didnt mean your seat post. i meant how "big" your frame is.

having a lot of standover clearance doesnt make your bike ride trials.

[Vicc]

but if the frame is lower wouldn't it be lighter too? also if i do some dirt jumping i wouldn't want the frame hitting my balls :)

[eturt9]

I don't think you wanna be doing too much dirt jumping with a 4300. Like said above, that planet x zebdi is probably the closest to what your looking for.

[Vicc]

I don't think you wanna be doing too much dirt jumping with a 4300. Like said above, that planet x zebdi is probably the closest to what your looking for.
i do very little dirt jumping and only small jumps. it just feels good to do the jumps on certain downhill areas and catch some air. besides if i build a new bike i won't be using that 4300 frame for it.

[carnagr]

My bike is like 26 pounds. 30 pounds is just fine, maybe a little on the heavy side, but it won't kill ya.

[Vicc]

My bike is like 26 pounds. 30 pounds is just fine, maybe a little on the heavy side, but it won't kill ya.
yeah but it's kinda hard to balance. also, maybe it's because of the position of my break handles..

[bouncingbabyboy]

Vic, I get what you are trying to do. A bike that is good for riding trail is not going to be worth a shit for trials and even riding around the block on my Zebdi sucks.

If you want to learn trials start by working on track stands with the bike you have. Don't change a thing. When you can stand in the pedals for a few seconds try:

~Stand behind the bike. Hold the rear brake. Walk backwards until it is vertical. Put one foot on the pedal. Climb on. If the bike falls forward stand it up higher next time. If it falls back not quite so high. If you stand up taller the bike will be more vertical if you lean back the front tire will be lower.

~Roll forward slowly. Grab the front brake. when you want to stop going over the front stick your butt out over the back tire. If you get to far up release the brake a little.

~When you rock back from the front wheel try to rock onto the rear.

As you work on all of this you will find that a suspension fork is pointless if you want to learn trials. You can do it if you are good, but it will hold you back at first. You will tear up your brakes and maybe even your seat stays if you work at it long enough. You will quickly see why the very specific trials bikes have evolved the way they have. When you want a full blown trials bike to learn on watch the bikes forsale here. You probably wont find better bikes for the price.

Good luck
Eric

[netto]

26" trials frames usually have shorter chain stays, higher bottom brackets, steeper head angle, and longer wheel base

if you get a smaller frame with similar geometry to what you already have, you wont notice any improvement.

just ride your bike until you are ready to really get into trials

[Vicc]

thanks for the advice. hey do you think i should cut off the top of my fork? does it stick out too much?
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb296/Vicc88/bike12.jpg

[samtrials]

cut off the top of your fork?

[Rodmunch]

He means the steerer tube. He has a bunch of spacers he thinks might be unnecessary.

[johnglazer]

You could move the spacers to above the stem to see what it feels like with a lower stem. If you like it lower, then yes, shorten the steerer tube.

[Vicc]

You could move the spacers to above the stem to see what it feels like with a lower stem. If you like it lower, then yes, shorten the steerer tube.
oh damn i should've thought of that earlier. now i feel like an idiot. :nuts:
thanks :)

yeah i moved it down and it feels a lot better already. i tried to balance on the rear wheel while standing at one place and max was like 4 seconds. it's kinda hard to roll forward. i can barely hold the rear brakes with my fingers as it is. is there a way to adjust avid juicy seven brakes besides the knob on the brake lever? it's already at max and i still have to use 2 fingers to pull the lever to hold the wheel steady.

[Rodmunch]

Get better/trials pads?

[Vicc]

Get better/trials pads?
yeah i'll probably buy some type of hayes disc brakes :(
but the disc plates on my bike are new so maybe i just have to use the brakes more often and it'll be better.

[netto]

hayes disc brakes blow for trials.

can that frame take vee brakes? if so i'd slap on some cheap shimano deore vee brakes. should stop better than that 6" disc you have on there.

[Vicc]

hayes disc brakes blow for trials.

can that frame take vee brakes? if so i'd slap on some cheap shimano deore vee brakes. should stop better than that 6" disc you have on there.
i do have v-brakes. i took em off when i switched to hydraulic disk about 2 weeks ago
i bend my wheels quite often so v-brakes won't work properly

[netto]

learn to true your wheel

[Vicc]

learn to true your wheel
in my head i already went through it and "learned" how to do it, but i have yet to try it on a real wheel and i'm afraid that i would ruin my wheels if i tried it on my own bike.

[Rodmunch]

Hayes aren't good for trials, and if you found some trials specific pads for your current brakes they would help out immensely.

[bouncingbabyboy]

i tried to balance on the rear wheen while standing at one place and max was like 4 seconds. it's kinda hard to roll forward. i can barely hold the rear brakes with my fingers as it is. is there a way to adjust avid juicy seven brakes besides the knob on the brake lever? it's already at max and i still have to use 2 fingers to pull the lever to hold the wheel steady.

Don't go changing your bike all around. Yes, lowering the stem and cutting the steer tube down is a good idea. If you have avid jucies on there now leave them. They will sell for more if you try to sell the bike later. You said the local bike shop takes good care of you, right. Tell them you want your brakes set with a minimal amount of slop. I see a lot of people riding around with brakes that pull to the bar and barely engage. Chances are they can be tightened up. I can't tell for sure from the picture but you might try moving them in a little so you are grabing just the end of the lever with one finger.

If you can do a track stand for 4 seconds you are doing great. Try some of the other stuff I mentioned. Stand the bike up and then climb on. If you fall sidways most of the time you need to work on track stands more. If you are falling forward just try to ride it out. If you are jumping off the back of the bike keep at it and you will get better.:bigthumb:

[Vicc]

Don't go changing your bike all around. Yes, lowering the stem and cutting the steer tube down is a good idea. If you have avid jucies on there now leave them. They will sell for more if you try to sell the bike later. You said the local bike shop takes good care of you, right. Tell them you want your brakes set with a minimal amount of slop. I see a lot of people riding around with brakes that pull to the bar and barely engage. Chances are they can be tightened up. I can't tell for sure from the picture but you might try moving them in a little so you are grabing just the end of the lever with one finger.

If you can do a track stand for 4 seconds you are doing great. Try some of the other stuff I mentioned. Stand the bike up and then climb on. If you fall sidways most of the time you need to work on track stands more. If you are falling forward just try to ride it out. If you are jumping off the back of the bike keep at it and you will get better.:bigthumb:

i tried moving the brake levers but it's a pain in the ass because of the shimano shifters. you see, my handlebar has a reinforcement piece that keeps the handlebar from bending/breaking and because of that i can't move my shifters too much. if i put too much pressure on the shifters they won't shift, so i can't force it closer to the middle, and therefore i can't move the break levers. i managed to move it about a half cm so now i can grab the lever with 1 finger (it's good enough for now), but i still need to do something about my breaks. i'll buy new brake pads and see if that helps.

and lol i misspelled wheel :momaru:

[Vicc]

oh god i just found the frame i wanted. i don't even have to buy the bike.
you guys think its good?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Specialized-Stumpjumper-M4-2004-Frame_W0QQitemZ320143127272QQihZ011QQcategoryZ9808 3QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[bouncingbabyboy]

Don't do it.

First of the frame is only one piece of a trials bike.

Secondly that frame is no better than what you have.

3rd, for that price you can buy a nice trials frame here.

Just practice on what you have and watch the for sale forum here. Seriously.

[Vicc]

yeah but i want a hardtrail/trials bike and that frame is lighter, lower, and longer than my current frame.

[bouncingbabyboy]

I went through the exact same thing. My Zebdi would be exactly what you say you want. The big difference between the Zebdi and what you have now is that it has much shorter chain stays. That is to say the tire is much closer to the bottom bracket or cranks. I was lusting after the Adamant and for not much more than I have in this Zebdi I could have bought the bike I want.

I haven't heard you say anything that would justify getting rid of the frame you have. It is a good starter frame. If you are going to trade up you want a Norco, Woodman, Planet X or something like that not a Stumpjumper. For the cost of that stumpjumper you could get a complete P2 or even a Hardrock that would be better than a Stumpjumper for trials.

Ask Rush or one of the other guys who has been here forever. They will tell you I am shooting you straight.

[bouncingbabyboy]

You are in NY. Call Tim over at Trialsin.com. Tell him what you are thinking and what you want. I bet he could set you down the right path and perhaps even introduce you to a couple of guys who could teach you a few tricks. 716-627-2676

[Vicc]

they're all the way at the other end of new york :(
i don't know i checked their website and their prices seemed to be high.
i think it'd still worth it to buy that m4 frame for $200-300, just because a new stumpjumper is 1400. a comp is 1700. and next year the price will rise. also i think that frame isn't a 2004 model. i found it under the 2005 archive.

[Noel]

http://www.norco.com/2007bikes/Mountain/Trials/model.php?id=35&view=1&deets=3

this is a bike that you might want to look at. you can call BayRidge Bikes and they can order it for you 718-238-1118

[Vicc]

http://www.norco.com/2007bikes/Mountain/Trials/model.php?id=35&view=1&deets=3

this is a bike that you might want to look at. you can call BayRidge Bikes and they can order it for you 718-238-1118
that doesn't look bad actually. damn i hate it how they never include the weight of the bike. but i can't afford to spend 1k now.
by the way did you guys ride on sunday?

[Rodmunch]

The weight is listed right at the bottom...27 lbs.

By the way, I can't stress enough what people here are saying...don't buy another XC frame to replace your current XC frame to be used as a trials bike. Use what you have or buy a trials-ish specific bike.

[Rodmunch]

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=30533

[Vicc]

The weight is listed right at the bottom...27 lbs.

By the way, I can't stress enough what people here are saying...don't buy another XC frame to replace your current XC frame to be used as a trials bike. Use what you have or buy a trials-ish specific bike.
i can't believe i missed that :( yeah i was comparing bikes and it doesn't show there.
but i've really wanted a specialized stumpjumper for a few weeks now. the guys i usually ride the trail with all have specialized, giant and cannondale bikes, i think i'm the only one with a trek.

[Rodmunch]

Ummm...I guess I don't understand. You want to build the specialized up as a XC bike so you can be considered cool by the guys you ride with? Do they really care what bike you ride? Does that really matter to you?

Bottom line, it won't be a better trials frame than what you have. If you want it for an XC bike and to be considered "cool", then go for it. :ugh2:

[Vicc]

Ummm...I guess I don't understand. You want to build the specialized up as a XC bike so you can be considered cool by the guys you ride with? Do they really care what bike you ride? Does that really matter to you?

Bottom line, it won't be a better trials frame than what you have. If you want it for an XC bike and to be considered "cool", then go for it. :ugh2:
no i actually want the stumpjumper because its made out of m4 alloy and is lighter than my current bike/frame.

[netto]

dont waste your money.

if you are going to buy something, buy something that is different enough for you to notice.

at your level geometry will make you improve more than weight.

[bouncingbabyboy]

If you buy the Specialized are all of the parts off your current bike going to work on the specialized? You say a new one goes for 1400. My neighbor just built one for 2000 all XTR. So are all the components on your current bike XTR? A big part of the price of a bike is components.

If all I wanted was a frame without a seat I could sell my mod and buy a frame with the money, but the back rim on my Zebdi is to narrow for any of the frames I want and I would have to buy a new rear wheel and new brake mounts, longer stem, new bottom bracket. It adds up fast. When you buy a complete bike you save a lot.

If you want a bike to go trail ridding with your friends get something they dont have like a Woodman(http://www.woodmancomponents.com/), 24(http://24-bicycles.com/2007/pages/frames/pornking/pornking%20black.htm), Norco or Planet X so they can all stand around saying "Dude, that rocks, I want one, where did you get that?"

The Zebdi frame built up with mostly the components you have now would be a decent trail bike and you could play on it. I got my frame for $50 not $200. Look at craigslist not egay.

As for weight, my Giant weighs 34 pounds and my Zebdi is 27. I demolish guys on 23 pound bikes and I have had my ass handed to me by guys on 50 pound bikes. Skill, strength and stamina have a lot more to do with it than how much the frame weighs. Do you think that Specialized frame is going to weigh in at 23 pounds with your avid juicies and the cranks off your Trek? Didn't Lance Armstong ride a Trek?

What is it with New Yorkers and driving a few blocks? We drive the equivilant of one end of your little state to the other to see my mother in law twice a month. Go see what Tim has before you buy another cross country frame. You don't have to buy from him, but he can show you what we are talking about. You can fondle a real trials bike and see if it is something you want.

That wasn't a Quick reply, but it is the only button I see so...

[Rodmunch]

no i actually want the stumpjumper because its made out of m4 alloy and is lighter than my current bike/frame.

I still don't understand...you want the specialized as your trials/xc bike? Or just an xc bike? It won't be much lighter than your Trek and you may not be able to use the parts off your trek if that was your plan.

[Vicc]

my friend won the bid. i asked him to buy it for me since i don't have a paypal account. i think $200 for a specialized m4 alloy frame isn't expensive at all.
i think i might build a trials only bike in a while. but the bikes i remember in my city four years ago were really different. i think all the people i knew had merida frames. the walls were so thin on the frame, when you hit it with your finger it felt like a tin can. noel talked to me about frames like that.

[netto]

wtf is this m4 alloy?

[Vicc]

wtf is this m4 alloy?
it's some superlight shit. not as light as carbon. but it's lighter than a1 aluminium

[netto]

thats great

why dont you brief us on the geometry of the frame?

[Vicc]

thats great
why dont you brief us on the geometry of the frame?
i think it's the 2005 stumpjumper, not 2004. i was looking for that frame under the 2004 archive but didn't find it. i did find it under the 2005 archive though. it's a hardtrail frame and as people have stated it's similar in geometry to my current frame.
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?arc=2005&spid=21546

[netto]

-36mm bb and 424mm stays :momaru::momaru::momaru::momaru::momaru::momaru::m omaru:

[netto]

which trek do you have now?

[Vicc]

which trek do you have now?
trek 4300. 16"
the specialized is 15.5" O_o
http://www2.trekbikes.com/bikes/bike.php?bikeid=1018600&f=18

[netto]

the geometry is almost the same as the specialized. have fun riding the same bike =)

[bouncingbabyboy]

It's not the same bike. Dude just spent $200 to trade up to a Specialized. Don't give him a hard time. I haven't seen a Stumpjumper in years. Do you know how rare those are. I hear they are really light. The chain stays are just a smidge longer than my Veratis. I am sure it will make a fine trials bike. With all the parts off his 16" 4300 it should weigh in under 28 pounds.

[bouncingbabyboy]

Sorry, just teasing. I hope you enjoy your new bike. If you want to get a trials bike I would be happy to answer questions. Sounds like that isn't what you were really after.

[Vicc]

i'm actually very confused now. i wanted a hardtrail for trials. now that i have a new frame i don't know what i want anymore. i feel like i've become a bike fetish :eek3:
i'll just wait for a few months before buying a new bike or making any serious upgrades.

[Rodmunch]

OK, well I hope you have fun with it, whatever it is you have planned for it.

[Vicc]

yeah i can't wait to try it out on the trail :)
oh shit i just cut my steering tube a week ago. imagine if it doesn't fit. oh i'd be so owned :rofl:

oh good its 10cm long. on the trek it's 10.5

[bouncingbabyboy]

I would be suprised if that is the only fit issue. A lot of times the derailuers are different from bike to bike. Stem length is a factor of steer tube hieght and tob tube length so the stem may feel to short or to long. There is a lot that goes into building a bike.

[eturt9]

jesus, this is frustrating to read

[Rodmunch]

Isn't it? Well, we tried to help. Can't help someone who doesn't know what he wants and doesn't want to listen to suggestions/advice.

[Vicc]

sorry i didn't listen to you guys, but once my mind is made up it's hard to talk me out of it. i'm strange, aren't i? :momaru:

[netto]

not weird

not smart neither