raccoon rally-results and post event thoughts

[trialsin usa]

Hey all,

Results (in news sections) and pics (gallery/2007 section) are now up. Go to NATS webpage.... www.natrials.com (http://www.natrials.com) .

Todays weather could not have been finer. Mid 70sF, light breeze and almost no humidity...glorious to say the least! Turn out was pretty good as well....hopefully we can top 40 next year.

Expert sections were on the tougher side of things, but riders seemed to rise to the occassion and even surprise themselves!

Sport sections were mastered maybe just a hair too comfortably by most. There were a lot of smiles and a good time was had.

Beginner scores were spot on. Not too over the top, not too easy.... just the right ammount of challenge.

PRO sections. Last year the sections might have been a little over the top due to rain and general greasiness adding a tad too much to the scary factor so we changed a couple. This year, there were a number of comments made and the sections were changed again, to too easy I believe. This should not have happened, and is my fault for giving in to riders complaints (don't anyone get defensive, it you job to whine about the sections!). However, I feel the following comments/thoughts will address the reasons given to me. I do this because it is important to point my thinking out first, rather than it becoming reactionary/splinters of explanation.:
1. Yes, some were high. Our PRO catagory is the same as Elite (or should be) in Europe/Asia, the top catagory regarless of the name. The sections should reflect that. What one expects in the very top catagory in North America should not be that much different than anywhere else. If one is uncomfortable with the section than a 5 can be taken, it has happened on more than one occasion when North American riders have gone to the European side of the pond. Finally, all areas as originally strung had been ridden at some point in previous years.
2. If the sections might incure bike damage, it is trials...no further explanation needed.
3. Regardless of what riders next event might be, this event (or any other) should not be regarded as a warm up for something else.
4. UCI versus BIU (pedal/bash dabs versus no). The event was run allowing the use of pedals and bashrings/guards (losely referred to as BIU rules). The sections were strung with an eye at where pedals and bashgaurds/rings could find grip. This is, I am sure, factored in to the differing view of the sections. They are very different ways to string and ride sections, but at the end of the day.... BIU was the version of the day.

At the end of the day, I agreed to change of sections... the buck stops with me. I want sections that will once again attract European and Asian riders to attend and they feel interesting/worthwhile. Next year, should I be involved again, the sections as originally strung will be adhered to (barring climactic ridability). These are NOT points to initiate arguement, but rather to provoke discussion leading to better direction for the sport of trials in North America in the future.

Finally thoughts about SPORT and EXPERT. The level of riding attained by Expert riders these days is very high. The spread between those just entering Sport to those in Expert is getting wider every year. I hope that one day the numbers of riders rises to such a point to be able to insert a catagory between Sport and Expert..... that is the only answer I can see in not making the jump from one to other so large. Lowering Expert is not really an answer as Pro is so far beyone the gap would be too wide. Upping Sport alot more would not be fair to Beginners just thinking of going to the next level. I am not sure what the answer is, just thought this aloud thought process might elicit some other ideas from out there.

To sum up, I (and my kids) had a great time and I look forward to seeing everyone again! Hope to see a few of you at NUMEN 2007 on July 28th at Killington resort in VT!

ENJOY!

[hopsalot]

Fun or dangerous is not a fine line. I'm happy to hear you changed sections the riders deemed too dangerous to ride.

[trials-online]

^^^true

[mikeyr89]

Thanks tim for putting on the event!
It was a lot of fun for me eventhough I got my ass kicked by the expert sections, I believe that you're true to say that keeping the expert/sport gap you can't ease up expert or make sport too hard. Maybe those were kinda tough but I don't know as I'm just entering expert my opinion is bias. I think I could get some of those sections maybe with another year of expierence? Which I think is a good thing.

Anyways, awesome comp, and thanks again for putting it on!

BTW thanks for the very fast uptade on the NATS site!!!

[brian_E]

cam coming out of the woods to throw down.. that made my day..

[stickyworm]

I wish I could have made it Tim. New Baby etc... I've discussed the sport/expert gap a lot with some other riders up here. I think that a skill level in between would be a mistake. It is a difficult thing to accept not being the best at a given skill level, but to invent another class would celebrate mediocrity. I have to remembr that in many sports, there is only one class of competition outside of local clubs. In Europe, much of the competition is classified by age and not by skill subsets.

Unfortunately this could lead to everything being gauged by pro level and relative downward, resulting in a harder level of beginner competition. Many people play tennis but don't consider themselves good enough to compete. Oh well, that's life. I see more value in declared levels of competition than adjusting skill levels within the comp. Gymnastics as an example has club matches, which lead to regionals, which lead to nationals, etc... With each successive comp being higher class. Perhaps this is more feasible?

Just some thoughts.

[Shin Scar]

Pro scores ranged from 8 to 28. The 1st place expert was 18 with the majority in the high 20s to high 40s. Being pro should not equal cleaning every section. There should be 5s given in the pro class! There has to be sections to seperate the men from the boys. If you are not one of the top few riders in the USA, you are an expert.

[trialsin usa]

Fun or dangerous is not a fine line. I'm happy to hear you changed sections the riders deemed too dangerous to ride.

Actually one of the sections had been run last year in the wet. Every Pro 5'd it, but there were some very close to finishing. I assumed:
1. Dry conditions would more than improve rideability enough to see the possibility of completion of the section.
2. At least one rider would have improved their skills over last year.

[Noel]

Finally thoughts about SPORT and EXPERT. The level of riding attained by Expert riders these days is very high. The spread between those just entering Sport to those in Expert is getting wider every year. I hope that one day the numbers of riders rises to such a point to be able to insert a catagory between Sport and Expert..... that is the only answer I can see in not making the jump from one to other so large. Lowering Expert is not really an answer as Pro is so far beyone the gap would be too wide. Upping Sport alot more would not be fair to Beginners just thinking of going to the next level. I am not sure what the answer is, just thought this aloud thought process might elicit some other ideas from out there.



i'm one of those that fell into that category i wish i had an answer for that but over all I had alot of fun. i must say that watching the pros was great but watching the experts fight to finish the sections was even more entertaining.

[music_maj_34]

Thanks once again Tim for a great event. Sorry I couldn’t stick around for the bunny hop contest. Also... I didn’t get much video or any pictures this time around.

As far as putting an additional class between sport and expert ... "Export?" (heh heh)

I agree with Stickyworm, even though it sucks not being at the top of your class, I think it pushes people to try and train harder for the next comp.


Angie... good to see that you came out of retirement! (LOL)

[biketrials25]

Great comp,,, enjoyed every second of it.
HIGHLIGHTS:
-Great sections, I like being push beyond my comfort zone.
-Rode with a great group of guys
-Learned from a fellow rider if I put both feet down it's a "5". :rolleyes:

LOWLIGHTS:
-Watching people strato-dab. I hate strato dabbing so I don't, look at my score (FAT 41 points), no strato dabbing there. It just a personal thing... not to offend anyone. I'm glad to see 1st place in pro and expert had 8 and 7 cleans.


I'll be back next year for sure!

[MikeTheBike]

Congratulations to Cam on the Pro win. Your preparations for the Worlds is showing. I'm looking forward to watching you dominate at the TTC.

[RomanC]

I think a good way to address the sport/expert/pro gap is to have sections of varying difficulty. Say given 5 sections 2 should be on the easy side and 2 should be on the harder side. That way somebody entering a new class can at least finish a section or two w/o 5ing everything. I tried to do this whenever I did the BadLands events. I think it worked out pretty well.

[va_tick]

I think a good way to address the sport/expert/pro gap is to have sections of varying difficulty. Say given 5 sections 2 should be on the easy side and 2 should be on the harder side. That way somebody entering a new class can at least finish a section or two w/o 5ing everything. I tried to do this whenever I did the BadLands events. I think it worked out pretty well.

very good idea! Great comp Tim, thanks for putting it on again.

[trialsin usa]

I think a good way to address the sport/expert/pro gap is to have sections of varying difficulty. Say given 5 sections 2 should be on the easy side and 2 should be on the harder side. That way somebody entering a new class can at least finish a section or two w/o 5ing everything. I tried to do this whenever I did the BadLands events. I think it worked out pretty well.

Yes, sport class has one section closer to beginner and one closer to expert and two in the middle. That is stantard goal to shoot for. Another ten to fifteen points to the scores of Sport would still make the gap in skill sets quite large. But getting that average up would have helped (not sure Sport riders want to hear that!...ha, ha).

[Dang!]

I have one toe in the sport level and felt great about the sections, some easy some hard- I scored a personal best- with my first clean ever. But I still brought up the rear of the sport class, so... easier or harder sections- probably wouldn't have changed the standings.

Has anyone heard how Kevin is fairing?

[Edge]

I always have a hard time setting sections too hard or easy. I know who all is attending my comps and I know their level. Question, Do you push the best rider in the category and make the rest suffer or do you make it easy and see who will mess up the least? I always have to set the sections to push Stan Selejov. I try to set the sport sections mid level and put more technical 2 wheel balance moves in. I would reallly like to see all the different expert sections set by all the different promoters to see where we all stand. What is really considered too hard?????

[giventofly]

Yes, sport class has one section closer to beginner and one closer to expert and two in the middle. That is stantard goal to shoot for.

I kinda saw that in your Expert sections, as well. It's what I try to do in my events, as well.

Good job, Tim. I had a great time.

Has anyone heard how Kevin is fairing?

BTW, Kevin is pretty rough right now. He didn't have to go to the hospital, but both of his legs were a nasty nasty shade of purple by yesterday afternoon from the knee down to mid shin, and the bloody one was all scabbed over.

He did miss work today as a result of his injuries. I'm sure he'll post up here eventually, when he's feeling better. I'm sure he'd appreciate some positive thoughts in his general direction.

-giventofly

[Lowlogic]

Hey, Im alive and what not. I really cant walk very well, but I think I'm blessed be able to complain about a double limp, given how bad it could have been. I owe a lot of people a debt of gratitude for lending me a hand during that mess. Thanks for the first aid kits, ice packs, water and moral support.

[trialsin usa]

Good to hear your not in neck to toe cast. Hope your recovery is swift!

[va_tick]

Hope you heal quick!! You should still have it checked out IMO. Good luck with everything....and you'll nail that drop next year :o

[Dang!]

Kevin,
If after all of that, you walk away with just a little banged up,
you are the man!
Maybe we should call you El Gato: THE CAT!
maybe you should see a doc. though, a physiatrist.
Just to make sure you didn't bruise any of your super powers.
God speed to you.

[kwilson]

PICS!!! WE NEED PICTURES.

Honestly, good to hear your not in the hospital. we were at the sections closest to the entrance to the rocks, and heard the noise and just knew something bad happened.

Get better soon.

[music_maj_34]

I only have a short video of the last loop of the sport class. Will be up soon.

[mattyv8]

what happened?

[Lowlogic]

I was trying to impress the ladies by doing a 10 foot drop to front wheel.

[muddyfox]

Glad to hear your alright mate..And it was very impressive!!!:weak:

[giventofly]

Quite possibly the most spectacular crash I've ever witnessed.

[maynard]

and scariest:dunno:. i still think you should go to the doc kevin! hope you get well soon

[mikeyr89]

Kevin, I hope you get better soon and that was the scariest thing ever. I hope to see you at the richmond event?

[hopsalot]

Kevin, you must have huge nuts, both of them. I got the play by play from your bro. Glad to hear your not dead.

[eastside]

I was trying to impress the ladies by doing a 10 foot drop to front wheel.


Euro style....Glad to hear that your OK.

[Lowlogic]

if only the whole thing was caught on video, we could all be watching it on youtube rightnow, synched up to the Benny Hill theme song or something.

Thanks again for all the help getting me back on my feet, as well as the sympathy of calling my face out of section even if my front axle was questionable.

[trialsin usa]

Gary and I were down the hill at the table calculating points.....you know that sound of metal hitting rock really hard?....well, as soon as we heard it we both looked at each other and said "that hurt" without even actually seeing the incident.

[Lowlogic]

Heh, Tim i think the sound you heard was "metal hitting bone" :)

Gravity aside, I'd like to say that the comp was most excellent. The sections were mental, but in the good way. I came to the comp with the notion that I'd be risking life and limb to complete a section, but that was "very thankfully" not the case. Each section had a very technical aspect which I enjoyed a great deal. I appreciate all of the hard work that went into the comps design this year.

One criticism I would like to voice however is the rather abrupt tape lines for the entry to each section. Some sections kind of became hit or missfor me, and while 5-ing out in the first 10 seconds saves bundles of energy, I didnt feel I could ride to my fullest potential. I dont intend to offend anyone with this remark, but I thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought.

[giventofly]

One criticism I would like to voice however is the rather abrupt tape lines for the entry to each section. Some sections kind of became hit or missfor me, and while 5-ing out in the first 10 seconds saves bundles of energy, I didnt feel I could ride to my fullest potential. I dont intend to offend anyone with this remark, but I thought I'd throw it out there as food for thought.

I would like to respectfully agree with this comment. I personally 5'ed out a section while setting up for a sidehop as entry....simply because my correction hop was 3 inches to the left and I was called out for exiting the section. At that point, I didn't even know I was "in" the section, and I was 5'ed (this section (not me in the photo) http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/OrderPage.aspx?pi=02ET004F020058&po=58&c=)

I would like to see a good 6 feet of entry and exit tape before and after the major obstacle of any section.

Regardless of that it was an extremely Well run comp, tim. Thank you for putting it all together.

-gtf

[jamesb]

In pro class we made our own imaginary entry lines so we wouldn't have to start the sections allready on a rock.

For next time: Keep the pro sections safe, not 20 feet in the air with only 3 inches of rock to hold onto. I would like to see sections more like what are in the euro comps...big hard super tech moves that stay below 7 feet.

Overall I had a good time, but the sections can be much better.

[trialsin usa]

Nothing we strung is higher than stuff there will be in Scotland. Yes, I have seen pictures and been told by those involved in stringing sectios. Hopefully will have some pictures to post here within the next week or so.....

Generally speaking, regardless of interpretation of sections...... not riding them as set will get you DQ'd in europe.

I am pretty sure that single digit results don't really push the level of North American riders toward that of europe.

Overall, as usual it was a good time. I look forward to next year already.

James, thank you and your brother for stepping up to do bunny hop comp. I really hope to see you guys (and others) at NUMEN 2007 at Killington resort in VT end of the month!

[rush]

The whole idea of tape is to challenge riders. You dont get to choose where it goes.

[giventofly]

The whole idea of tape is to challenge riders. You dont get to choose where it goes.

Agreed...however....weather a person has entered a section or not should not be a judgement call based on perspective and the location of the judge. That is why most rulesets for section building clearly dictate that section tape should begin and end a significant distance before or after major obstacles.