Starting a company for trials...

[mekanic305]

Not sure if this is the appropriate section for this but it does have to do with competitions and the feedback in this section seems to be the most thoughtfull and usefull, so...

I'd like any tips/comments/suggestions with a company I am starting for event management and promotion of biketrials. I know taking on trials will be somewhat risky because of the tiny market, however, I see it as having huge growth potential due to the huge interest in other countries.

So...My initial idea is to have a website that allows people to host their own events (competitions) and setup demos. For competitions this would include finding and securing venues and getting insurance issues taken care of, if possible, and even supplying all the materials to set it up...the host would essentially just have to set up the sections and collect entry fees and have everyone sign waivers and clean up afterward. As for the demos...the idea is to have the company secure schedules and locations of places that want demos then list them online for riders to participate in at their convienience.

In addition, the website will also likely include a buy/sell section and a simple forum to help produce some sustainable income.

I'm looking to see what peoples general interest is as to whether or not this is even needed or would be helpful in promoting the sport. For anyone who has comments as to why this won't work (I'm sure there will be many)...please be specific so that the issue can be addressed.

Oh, and I've been keeping up with other threads that discuss similar topics such as these...if anyone knows of any others please do share...
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28939
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28941&highlight=trials+marketing
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28090&highlight=peoples+view+todays+trials+competitions

Thanks in advance for any responces!

[rush]

The first original idea i've seen for a biketrials related company. A good one too I think.

[Atomz AU]

very very good idea!

[Dang!]

Kick ass! Get it rolling, people will follow.

[va_tick]

not bad......there is only one way top see if it works...do it....doesnt look like it would require too much in the way of start up capitol?

[philth]

Bellow is link to a comp setup I am running this Sunday actually. I may not be the first person to do so, I'm not sure,I've never seen it anywhere else....

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28664
http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28788

I talked it over with Tim @ trialsin.com, he thought it was a great idea, and his imput to make it run well, he's sponsoring the best section.(its all outlined in the links above.)

[mekanic305]

Thanks for the links...that does sounds like a great idea...I'll keep watch over those threads too to see how it turns out!

[dengenerate]

this could be an ignorant question (i certainly don't intend for this question to be discouraging), but what would be the differnce between what you have in mind and say biketrials.com. i'm not super-familiar with the site, but they seem to have event calendars, event coverage, etc. yours would be more proactive in organization and logistics of events? i agree that the start up costs wouldn't be overwhelming, so it's certainly worth a shot. and i'm sure you'd already have a lot of support from this forum, mine included.

[mekanic305]

There are no discouraging questions...they only help me recognize challenges ahead of time instead of after spending lots of money. So thanks...

Biketrials.com and the new NATS site both achieve their purpose and seem to be only getting better. One of the biggest issues they seem to have is staying current. As far as I know they are managed by riders who still have jobs, families, etc. to attend to. My main goal is to help make it easier and even profitable for others to host their own events. As well as what you said with being more proactive, the company will also work with schools, businesses, and many others who we could set up demos for to help promote the sport. That's really the underlying motive. I'm looking to create a site that is essentally a one-stop shop for trials, or at least have all the necessary links.

I've also been researching the history of other major sports, football, soccer, nascar, etc to find out what it was that made them explode into what they are today...I've found many things I think could help, as well as, just getting creative and thinking up new things to help the competitions attract more people, both riders and spectators.

[philth]

I just used the NAT's for getting the rulings, score cards, etc...its really well done.

As for insurance, I went to lawdepot.com and got an offical legal waver, which is vadlid for the date you specify...cost me $12 for endless copies.


My $0.02 on increasing recognition of the sport.
I belive that video footage of comps is better than photos. 'Joe'public has a hard time grasping biketrials as it is. Pictures of riders riding at comps do work but if your trying to grow the sport, video is a better way to go. You tube is already making biketrials more widely recognised (even thought they may not under stand it)

The best way I can put this...
Like a picture of a golfer putting, it could be mini golf, it could be a par3,4, or 5, it could be a pratice green...you don't know, the public doesn't know. With mottion picture you caputer the thoughts, feelings and entire hole, you get a full understanding of the sport.

When I explain trials comps to people, I explain it like golf, you play all the sections (holes) and try to incure the least amount of dabs (strokes), the winner is the one with the least dabs (strokes) at the end of the event.

I've have found this to help alot, if they the public can grasp and understand the way the sport works, even when they can't understand how we ride the way we do...they still appreciate it as a true sport, with tallented riders...then I just tell them its practise.

[denib]

Try getting in touch with Dennis McCoy and his wife Paridy. They have a company that does this with BMX they would probably be the best one to answer any questions(they used to be the promoter for the gravity games).
Last I herd they were living in Grandview MO.

[stickyworm]

It sounds to me to be similar to the bike associations that exist, providing membership and insurance, rules and resources etc... with one very good exception, it would be current, available and specific to trials.

In canada(ontario) here, insurance is very easy for an organizer, but murder for the riders. I can host a NORBA event and pay my fee, then all the riders have to do is find some obscure association run by part-time volunteers to purchase their anual membership, which is costly for only one competition, and knowing their money will not go to help their sport in the least.

It would really help to have an association in place that is available and current and with trials in mind.

[mekanic305]

I just used the NAT's for getting the rulings, score cards, etc...its really well done.

As for insurance, I went to lawdepot.com and got an offical legal waver, which is vadlid for the date you specify...cost me $12 for endless copies.


My $0.02 on increasing recognition of the sport.
I belive that video footage of comps is better than photos. 'Joe'public has a hard time grasping biketrials as it is. Pictures of riders riding at comps do work but if your trying to grow the sport, video is a better way to go. You tube is already making biketrials more widely recognised (even thought they may not under stand it)

The best way I can put this...
Like a picture of a golfer putting, it could be mini golf, it could be a par3,4, or 5, it could be a pratice green...you don't know, the public doesn't know. With mottion picture you caputer the thoughts, feelings and entire hole, you get a full understanding of the sport.

When I explain trials comps to people, I explain it like golf, you play all the sections (holes) and try to incure the least amount of dabs (strokes), the winner is the one with the least dabs (strokes) at the end of the event.

I've have found this to help alot, if they the public can grasp and understand the way the sport works, even when they can't understand how we ride the way we do...they still appreciate it as a true sport, with tallented riders...then I just tell them its practise.

That is a really good way to explain it. I totally agree with the video aspect and I will surely be exploiting that to it's fullest potential.


To denib...I doubt I can just call up Dennis McCoy, but I do appreciate the input. I will make every attempt to contact him and/or his operation.


To Stickyworm...Insurance from what I can tell isn't to major of an issue in the US but it does need to be taken care of and when I expand the company to other countries I will certainly have to take that into consideration, so thanks for the heads up.

[Matt]

Here's the problem I see:

What is normal turn out to a normal competition? 10 riders?

What would your average 14-20 year old rider pay to compete for a day? Let's figure on the high end of say $65.

Let's figure four local shops are willing to contribute $100 each ($1 per participant, and $1 per spectator if they each draw 9 people) to increase their exposure.

Income from event: $1050
Organizer gets what? $200?
Prizes amount to $200
Your insurance, for the event, phone calls setting it up, webhosting for your website, promotional materials, etc etc etc: $150 (way low end)

That leaves at MOST $500 to be earned from an event.

Let's figure you do 4 events per month across the country, that amounts to $2000/mo. Don't forget the MILLION other expenses you know I left out.

End result: You're living in your parent's basement until you're 45 and inherit what they left behind. You're fat, out of shape and never get laid. You're dead by 52.

Just trying to save you the pain. It isn't realistic. You need to spend serious time talking to an accountant/financier and writing up a FULL business plan before you begin this endeavor

[literocola]

Are the wavers from lawdepot notorized? They dont mean much (if I remember correctly) unless they have a signiture from a lawer, and have to be notorized. If they arnt, then those papers are useless in court

[philth]

Are the wavers from lawdepot notorized? They dont mean much (if I remember correctly) unless they have a signiture from a lawer, and have to be notorized. If they arnt, then those papers are useless in court

Given I was happy to trust you guys not to take me to court.
My Dad + wife got the waver, so I would assume given her position, and my dad cunning ness to find loop holes that the waver meets the needs.

[mekanic305]

Here's the problem I see:

What is normal turn out to a normal competition? 10 riders?

What would your average 14-20 year old rider pay to compete for a day? Let's figure on the high end of say $65.

Let's figure four local shops are willing to contribute $100 each ($1 per participant, and $1 per spectator if they each draw 9 people) to increase their exposure.

Income from event: $1050
Organizer gets what? $200?
Prizes amount to $200
Your insurance, for the event, phone calls setting it up, webhosting for your website, promotional materials, etc etc etc: $150 (way low end)

That leaves at MOST $500 to be earned from an event.

Let's figure you do 4 events per month across the country, that amounts to $2000/mo. Don't forget the MILLION other expenses you know I left out.

End result: You're living in your parent's basement until you're 45 and inherit what they left behind. You're fat, out of shape and never get laid. You're dead by 52.

Just trying to save you the pain. It isn't realistic. You need to spend serious time talking to an accountant/financier and writing up a FULL business plan before you begin this endeavor

Good points...I know there are not enough riders right now to support such a venture...however, I'm looking into ways to draw more people into it. I actually am writing a business plan and getting capital to do this...I didn't just wake up and decide to do this...I've been researching the industry and market, which only helps so much, but from what I can tell there is huge potential. Time will tell if I am out of my mind.

[jeff_2540]

If you accually want to make some money become an event planner. And Plan an event around bike trials. Similar to Wake boardings Wake fest. The main event is the wake boarding .... but people don't go for the wake boarding they go for the Bands, the motor cross demos, and all the other entertainment. In Any populated city you can get major sponsorship and put on a great event that surrounds bike trials and you can get all the big names in bike trials out to the event.

eg. www.wakefest.ca (http://www.wakefest.ca)

Cheers Jeff

[AndyT]

Trialsfest...Have a mech engineering booth, a scrabble booth, and linkin park play.

[rush]

:rofl:

The Ruthless and the blue Giant could be on display.

On topic: While there will be difficulties (probably alot) it can be done.

The trials committee of Vic over here raises money by doing demos with a team at all sorts of events, then uses the money for prizes and comps etc.

[va_tick]

Trialsfest...Have a mech engineering booth, a scrabble booth, and linkin park play.

lol....that's perfect!

[AndyT]

ripstoke productions was a company back in colorado who did pretty well doing demos at all kinds of places. Unfortunately only kevin rode with other people.

[dkoppric]

ripstoke does very well

[AndyT]

its their faith in god

[jbinion]

I have put on a few events. I think I am out about 1000.00 to date (including a few XC events). Having an event and making a profit? not sure that is possible. Not to be negative, Edge in Texas has put on more events and I'll bet he isn't turning anything except the great rep he has for putting on an exceptional event. Planning and preparation aside, if there aren't enough people in your area to participate then you end up like the rest of us. We do it for our fellows, not for cash. My 2 cents.

[yay]

Trialsfest...Have a mech engineering booth, a scrabble booth, and linkin park play.

unfortunately

[MikeTheBike]

The trick to not losing money putting on comps is sponsorship. I've been putting on comps since 2003 and I've yet to spend any money out of my own pocket. I got quite a bit of money from sponsors the first couple of years but it trickled down to one special bike shop last year. The thing that cost me the most was the insurance. Now that I've found a cheaper source, I can make it self-sustaining.

I'm very much behind Ben in this endeavor. Creating a one-stop shop for BikeTrials events is something I've wanted to do for a couple of years but wasn't sure where to start. As I see it, uniting the events and event directors can only increase the odds of getting sponsors - thereby breaking even or, possibly, making a little profit.