Did I mess up?

[FlatFender]

So i recently built my first trials bike. (Adamant A1)

Heres my question, Should I have started out on a bike with a more relaxed geometry? the bike has a +50 BB and it doesnt feel nearly as stable as my XC bike. Ive been riding for about 2 months now and Im having a pretty hard time. Do ya'll think I should get a bike with a lower BB for a while?

Thanks Folks
Luke

[darkside]

Honestly... Yes, you probably got more bike than you were ready to deal with.

But it's still a very capable trials bike and you should be able to learn on it. Are there specific moves that you are having difficulty with?

[dengenerate]

i just bought a control (+20bb) and compared to my xc bike it felt unstable as shit at first. it made no sense to me. i expected it to be like a rock. i feel like i got used to it pretty fast, though. this is the only trials-geometry bike i've ever ridden, so i can't say if +50 is going to make it less stable (though it'd make sense... higher center of gravity). isn't the idea of a higher bb to be more comfortable/stable on the rear wheel?

[rush]

Did I mess up?



Yes.

[rush]

Just jokes, youll be right.

[FlatFender]

I cant even trackstand the thing! (I cant trackstand any bike well, but it seems harder on this bike)
I havent really been trying any specific moves, ive just been trying to ride lines and trying to trackstand.
I came to this realization tonight when I was downtown on my XC bike, and I could ride pretty much every line that ive been riding on my Trials bike, easier on my XC bike.. wtf?

[FlatFender]

Yes.

DAMN YOU AND YOUR FUNNIES!

[darkside]

What stem and bar are you using? High BB frames require higher bar position to feel comfortable.

[FlatFender]

145x20 Echo stem
Monty riser bars. Im thinking about getting some wider bars.

[darkside]

Bar width could be playing a part. How wide are Monty's? I like the 720-740mm range.

[FlatFender]

not totally sure right now, ill measure in the morning.

[darkside]

Okay. Doesn't really matter to me, it's just something for you to think about. If they're already 700mm or more, there won't be a whole lot for you to gain.

To be bluntly honest, and don't take this personally, you should be able to trackstand on any bike regardless of geometry. It kinda just sounds like you need some more practice. Do you ride with anyone better than you who can help you out in person? That's the best cure for any trials related hurdle.

I wouldn't bother with the hassle of changing bikes already. Ride what you got and keep at it. Spending money on a new bike when you've already got one won't help nearly as much as just spending time practicing.

[isah]

Monty's are 680 mm

[FlatFender]

Unfortunately there isnt anyone else around here who rides.... kinda sucks. I was going to try and make it down BigBear this weekend, but alas, I couldnt get off work.

Im definately riding a lot, so hopefully something will click soon...lol

[dengenerate]

hopefully something will click soon

i'm willing to bet it'll be one of those things where you repeatedly try and fail without much progression for a seemingly long time, then one day you do it half by accident and it works from then on.

[chronic]

The reason its hard is because you're standing about a mile above your axles. Your XC bike gave you some leeway. With your weight so much lower, it didn't have that finicky feel. You could counter act some of your inexperienced balance.

But now, you're on a bike that isn't too forgiving. With the highbb bikes i've riden, its one of those things I think you should have quite a bit of experience in trials, before trying. IMO.
Yeah, you maybe should have started on a frame with a lower bottom bracket. But I wouldn't switch now. Just keep riding and hopefully you'll start to get the hang of it.

Just relax, and giver.

[va_tick]

Yeah, you pretty much just have to keep riding and retrain your muscles to react to the new geo...in the end you'll be ok

[music_maj_34]

Being that we are on the subject of the A1...My friend just got an A1 as well and it doesnt have a chain tensioner on it. It is has horizontal dropouts on it.

He was wondering if he should put some sort of BMX type tensioner on it? It seems that the wheel is always moving after riding a while.

[RomanC]

lower your tire pressure some to 20psi or a tad below. This will make the bike a bit more stable as the tires will sag up some of the motion. Also practice track standing up hill.

[carnagr]

The reason you're having troubles 'riding lines' on it is because high BB bikes aren't designed to 'ride lines'. They're designed to be on the rear wheel. Sidehops, hooks, gaps, etc. They're not very stable on two wheels, so if you can't get up on the rear, you probably are gonna have quite a bit of trouble with this thing.

[FlatFender]

thats not what I wanted to hear. Im not to the point that I can get on the rear wheel yet.....

[carnagr]

I'm not saying that you should give up on it, just be aware that they are not great on two wheels, and until you get a little better, you're gonna have to work a little bit harder at it. Definitely don't give up though.

[marshalllaw18]

Don't worry, you'll get used to it.

[justtysen]

Pretty much any modern trials bike is going to feel somewhat awkward compared to a XC bike. Even though a high bb bike is the epitome of this, I don't think you should worry about it. Keep practicing on the A1 and keep riding trials on your XC bike too. Once you start pivoting or back hopping the A1 geometry will make more sense. Even then, riding natural will be a little more difficult on the A1 for awhile. Part of the reason I like riding different styles of bikes is that they require equally different riding styles.

[hopsalot]

Funny thing is I feel very unstable on my XC rig compared to my trials bike. A lower BB makes a big difference in stablilty. There was a post not to long ago with a company selling $99 frames, a shorter street frame might do the trick until you get some chops and at the price you can't go wrong. Keep the A1 in and when your ready make the switch.

[beastoftheeast]

i say keep it, you will be fine once your balance developes more. turn on music in the backyard and go out there for a long as time, be patient.

you could always make a post and see if anyone wants to trade you frames plus or minus cash. my friend was looking to trade for a high bb frame from an echo pure, too late. got his gu a few weeks ago. i just moved to a +55 bb from +0 bb on top of basically not riding the whole school year almost, cant really ride though cause i pulled my hamstring right before i got the bike finished but front pivots and trackstanding felt pretty bad at first. feeling back to my old style though after only 2 short sessions in the backyard pivoting and doing things to work on balance as thats all my hammie lets me do right now.

[eturt9]

there is a lot of negativity about high bottom brackets.
You will get used to it, especially if its your first bike. I'm riding a +60mm bb and i started on a +10 mm. I've never noticed it being that much more unstable on two wheels.

Any trials bike is going to be weird at first. I wouldn't worry too much about the bb height.

[toyota200x]

Just spend some time on it. If you really hate it after a 6 months of riding it then I would switch.

Are you still wanting to get rid of the Monty bars? If so PM me.

[Ross W.]

you should be able to trackstand on just about anything with two wheels, but you probably just need more time on the bike.

I agree, if you still don't like it after 6 months, definitely look for something else.

[AgrAde]

i ride at expert level and i went from a level bb to +30. i noticed it was harder to balance on anything while on two wheels. with my pure it just sat there, rock solid. i could put my front wheel on something and just have a rest there before doing a wheelswitch. i'm a lot more antsy on my new bike.

that's only from about half an hour of stuffing around on it today since it's been working, but still... a change in the wrong direction, especially if i was still a beginner/sport level rider.

[FlatFender]

So, ive decided to sell the Adamant and get something w/ a lower BB. Whadda ya'll recommend? I cant swing much more than $400 on another frame. Also, is longer or shorter better for a beginner? Im about 6'3"

[Rodmunch]

Get a Pure or Control?

[FlatFender]

webcyclery has a killer deal on Echo Pures right now. Im thinkin I may go that route.

[dingus]

I think the xc bike youre familiar with always makes for the best beginner bike. But if youre beyond that, and know you want to do more than balance type lines, I think the current pure is a great bike. I have one and its a dandy.

[dengenerate]

webcyclery has a killer deal on Echo Pures right now. Im thinkin I may go that route.

:werd: if you haven't dealt with webcyclery, they're the shit. i just bought a control off them and they were absolutely great to work with. mean todd is extremely patient and helpful answering questions. and if you ask for his opinion between two components, he'll steer you to the one he prefers, even if its the lesser expensive of the two.

[FlatFender]

:werd: if you haven't dealt with webcyclery, they're the shit. i just bought a control off them and they were absolutely great to work with. mean todd is extremely patient and helpful answering questions. and if you ask for his opinion between two components, he'll steer you to the one he prefers, even if its the lesser expensive of the two.

Ive purchased from them before. Hands down the best customer service in the business. I ordered a BB, UPS lost it, mean todd had a new one to me in 48hrs. He rocks my socks off.

[goose]

if you get a simtra, you have the option of rear disc in the future. Not too many frames have that going for them...

[FlatFender]

So, its gonna be a Control, or a Pure. Im going to purchase tonight.
What are the advantages of a long or short frame? As a tall newb (6'3"), what would be better?

[lucky13]

I'm all for your move to a Pure, but consider this: Did you have the appropriete stem for the High BB bike to begin with? If you run a high bb frame with a "normal" 100-130 low rise stem you are screwed. If you run a 130-145length 15-20deg stem,.. it's all right.

Pure's are pretty sweet though so if you can make the swap out easily then go for it.

[FlatFender]

I had a 145x20 on the high BB Adamant. I just couldnt get used to it.

[FlatFender]

Alright, I just ordered an Echo pure!!

[toyota200x]

Great choice. That is what I have been riding for the past year and I love it. :bigthumb:

[Ro-Bo]

If it makes you feel any better; I started out struggling for stability on a +35mm rise BB after riding a xc bike. Now things feel way more normal and moves are starting to 'click'. Practice... start small and don't keep practicing something you just can't get. Have a rest and come back to it and remember to analyse your body position and method and then experiment if it isn't working. Eventually it will all come together. It seems to be coming along for me. Just be patient and don't give up. Practice your track starts on a slight up hill gradient and just weight the pedals.

:eek5:

[lucky13]

More riding = More better?

NO WAYZ!

[multismith]

What year Adamant A1 was it, 2006 or 2007? I believe Adamant changed frame geo for 2007. 2007 model long has 1095WB and a +30 BB with a 400mm fork. 2007 short is 1075 WB and has a +15 BB.

[FlatFender]

it was the +55 A1

[FlatFender]

I took the Pure for its shakedown ride today. I am very happy with it. Pivots are much easier, as is trackstanding.
Thanks for the help gents, im very excited about it!

[Xoo]

Thanks for posting your problem. Thanks to this post I was able to confirm that my A1 on order didn't have a high BB. Glad to hear the Pure is working out for yah.

[lucky13]

More riding = More better?

NO WAYZ!

just remember that riding more is crazy talk

[Rodmunch]

Glad the Pure is working out for you. =)

[Nuckfut]

I'm going to add to this although Flatfender already got a new bike. I came from an OLD Zebdi to an Adamant A2. Wow, talk about different, I still haven't gotten the bunnyhopping down with it yet and still working on hooks and such, but I am getting used to it, has just taken a while. I've started getting a lot better on gapping to back wheel and up stuff on back wheel, and it's super easy on the back wheel period. I think it's something you just need to really work on getting used to.

[psyber_0ptix]

i bought flatfenders adamant, and man it was definately different.

i came form 0bb to this +55. backwheel is almost perfect to just stand on, very little adjusting hops. But i cannot bunnyhop for the life of me. i'm also awaiting wide bars as i have regular dh riser bars on it now.

i'm itching to try a lower +30bb. But i will see where this frame takes me. i'll go pop a tube trying to bunny hop on a curb now...