Raccoon Rally!!

[kwilson]

I just got the dates for the Raccoon Rally, June 30/July 1, 2007!!

http://www.wnymba.org/portal.php?h=raccoon_rally

See you there!

Kevin

[muddyfox]

Modified & Stock Trials Competitions- Moderately difficult obatacle courses held at the Thunder Rocks region of the park. Tackle tight spaces, logs & plenty of rocks on our marked course for great awards!

Moderately difficult!! :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano: :hahano:

[kwilson]

And DEATH is Moderately permanent!

[giventofly]

I'll be there.

ANybody know who's running it?
they're gonna tone it down a bit this year, right?

[eastside]

Why? Is there a problem or riding on a section that only qualifies as difficult because if you fall you better hope you have a Life Insurace Policy :nuts: .I am all for a challenge, but sometimes R. Rally is a bit out of hand.

[Mr_Penut]

pan man and I are planning on making the drive again

[Noel]

i hope tim's crazy ass will be setting up the sections again. i'm really hoping to be there again.

[jamesb]

I will be there...The sections can easily be more difficult then last year! BUT NOT 20ft in the air. There are so many really hard, big move lines that stay below head height.

I will be staying there for a few days to train after the event.

[kobrakai]

i'm there again for sure, already booked it off work.

[giventofly]

I will be there...The sections can easily be more difficult then last year! BUT NOT 20ft in the air. There are so many really hard, big move lines that stay below head height.




I totally totally agree. there's a serious difference between difficult and dangerous.

Last year's Thunder ROcks was a great time, and probably made me a better rider because it made me do things I normally wouldn't do...especially some of the front sections...HOWEVER there was one section that I took deliberate 5's on because it was just too dangerous, and another section that I timed out on every time, just trackstanding deciding how I'd be able to earn a living if something went wrong.

That is NOT why I ride trials. Even at the expert level, I don't believe that you should have to weigh your points position against your wage earning ability.

That section in the back with the 13 foot mossy downcamber drop to a pile of wet treeroots....not cool.

Let's use this as a deciding factor...if it's too high, wet, and dangerous to CLIMB on the rocks and the event director can't even tape the section propely because it's too high...it's probably not a good idea to make people ride it.

I know first hand how difficult it is to run a comp, and set up sections that please the majority of the riders. I also know that without feedback, i'd repeat the same mistakes over and over. Please, Take this as feedback, not as flaming. There are a lot of things I LOVE about this event...it's the only event I plan attend this year. You guys are doing a great job with it...but it just needs to be toned down. Remember...it's supposed to be fun! Most of the sections were REALLY fun last year....it's just a couple that really got out of hand dangerous!

Let's keep it sane this year!

[eastside]

I agree. Take this as constuctive critisism Tim...You do a great job and your one hell of a guy who is full of info.

[Kevin Packer]

I'll be there again for sure, cant wait, I love that spot.

[pan man]

Is the trials comp Saturday or Sunday? It would be great if it's on Saturday, so I can do the XC race Sunday...

[giventofly]

Is the trials comp Saturday or Sunday? It would be great if it's on Saturday, so I can do the XC race Sunday...

I sucked the following paragraph from wnymba.org's Raccoon Rally link

The Raccoon Rally™ will be held June 30 and July 1, 2007 and consists of an observed trials events, a road race, the new dual slalom downhill, and fun rides on Saturday, with a cross country race for riders of all skills on Sunday morning. The cross country race alone draws more than 600 racers. Other events during the weekend include a hill climb, a night ride (bring your lights), organized fun rides from Camp Allegany (both road bike and mountain bike rides), and the very popular Kids Race Sunday afternoon. We have racers anywhere from the age of 10 to 70+ years old, with entire families participating.
In year's past, the Trials was on the same day and at the same time as the XC race.

[hopsalot]

I'm with GTF. 3 foot gaps are easy, but when they are 20 foot in the air and covered in snot moss, not so cool. JamesB has it nailed, keep things safe and under 6 feet and the whole event will much better for both riders and specators.

[kwilson]

I love when the crowd goes "Oohh, and Aaahh", due to a great move, not to a huge, potentially life threatening crash.

[pan man]

Yeah, last years sections were way too high, I remember last year, james' or bodough's bike fell down that steep rock wall and almost hit the spectators..

It's funny when they ditch the bike and hold on to the rocks for their lives.. :hs:

[trialsin usa]

OK, so a couple of the PRO sections were a tad on the hairy side....sorry, won't happen again this year;)

Per difficulty. The lowest PRO score was in the low 30s. The EXPERT scores, if memory serves, either started in single digits or low teens.

Here is the way I view comp difficulty generally. I am a literalist. If you call yourself a PRO, then you better be able to hang with the big boys. If you don't think you are in the top 10 or 20 in North America, don't sign up for PRO catagory. I think creating sections where the best riders get in the single digits/low teens (i.e. not being really challenged) so others can feel good about themselves is cheating the best riders we have. Last year being exception, I generally like to see low scores starting in upper teens or twenties. Pro catagory is the cream of the crop for what we have in North America.... dilution of the catagory to not bruise egos is antithetical to creating catagories in the first place.

I view the EXPERT sections similarly. Look the word up in the dictionary. It does not say "catagory created so occasional weekenders can feel good about themselves". It is the last step before PRO....in otherwords the riders just out of the top 10% (or 1%?!). This is not to attack anyones skill, I completely agree we need another catagory between expert and pro, but the numbers of participant simply won't support it at this time.

I have no intension in getting into brawl over this, I simply feel strongly that the catagories in trials need to represent something. That representation should not be a moving target depending on who is showing up. Alot of you know me, and know there is nothing personal in any of this (as I did not take input about last years PRO sections personally).

I think this is an awesome topic, and should be discussed alot more. However, I do not think this is the right forum. To get more involved in the discussion, maybe someone could start a thread in the general discussion forum?

[giventofly]

Thanks for your feedback, Tim. I think I speak for a lot of riders when I say that a huge thank you is in order for keeping this event alive. All comments regarding section layout aside, I have to say that you do a hell of a job with this event! Thank you.

Now....I do agree with you about difficulty level representing the category name. Experts should be the experts of the sport, plain and simple. That said, maybe calling the pro class "pro" is a misnomer in itself. Nobody in the united states competes in trials as a professional. (and I mean professional as trials competition paying the bills, doing competitions for a living)

When all is said and done, at the end of the day, we're ALL doing this for fun. Even those that enter in the pro class. We want to be challenged, but we all have to go back to our jobs on monday. That's the thing.

But last year, we had sport riders doing shoulder high dropoffs from off camber moss covered rocks...I respect that I run events differently than you do, and again, I'm NOT trying to start a battle here......but the NEPS, NATS, UCI and BIU rules are very clear about those height restrictions and some of the sport sections were close to double the limit.

It's a tough thing, though. We all agree that there needs to be a mid class between sport and expert, but the numbers don't support it. Hell, the numbers barely support having an event at all! You and I both, as guys that run events, are trying desperately to bridge the ever widening gap between classes.

I think some of the other posters here have a valid point....the terrain at racoon ralley is so wildy varied, that I honestly think you can have expert sections that score in the double digits, but still not have to battle virtigo.

Tim, as they were ridden, all but one of the Expert sections were 100% the best sections i've ever had to ride. I loved them. They were technically demanding and mentally challenging, Keep up the good work. I just don't want to see somebody get hurt.

Can we still be friends? :x:

[Darren]

so make pro sections very hard, but at the most 8 feet above the ground, some big moves, some technical stuff, and make the expert sections harder to help narrow the gap maybe?

[giventofly]

so make pro sections very hard, but at the most 8 feet above the ground, some big moves, some technical stuff, and make the expert sections harder to help narrow the gap maybe?

Unfortunately, that may not be the solution. The sport class is bound to a certain level of difficulty by the rules that govern our sport. It's impossible to make sport secitons harder, so making expert more difficult would be only be confounding the problem, and making the gap between classes bigger.

I wish I could follow this rebuttle up with a solution or proposal, but I have none. I only know from experience what doesn't work.

[trialsin usa]

Your right about the height of drops for sports.... don't remember setting anything really high....but then again it was raining and I was chasing a 3 and 4 year old around at the same time. I will have to take a look at rules and stick to them this year.

While their are not really any PROs in the sense that they make a living at it. The catagory has to be established starting with the best riders in mind and those that are not too far out of their skill level.......what is left is EXPERT.

There is no easy answer as Dan says. The only real answer is another catagory....and we just don't have the numbers to support it.

I think if there is going to be a wide gap anywhere, it should be between sport and expert.

[y_nairb]

That said, maybe calling the pro class "pro" is a misnomer in itself. Nobody in the united states competes in trials as a professional. (and I mean professional as trials competition paying the bills, doing competitions for a living)

When all is said and done, at the end of the day, we're ALL doing this for fun. Even those that enter in the pro class. We want to be challenged, but we all have to go back to our jobs on monday. That's the thing.

this is is a terrible way to think and will only lead to the ABSOLUTE decinagration of the pro class..

it's my opinion.. but if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.. don't get rid of the kitchen.. or even make it cooler.. kitchens are supposed to be hot they have ovens in them dammit.. =P

it wasn't the danger in the pro sections that made them lame.. it's that no one could even get in a couple of them the way they were originally set.. simply put there's a difference between hard and realistic..

as far as sport/expert.. i remember 100 years ago riding sport at a 7 springs comp that randy set.. it was the hardest thing i had ever done and i got killed.. there was one section i couldn't even get in.. i hated it.. but i went home and practiced all the shit i couldn't do until my arms fell off and i killed it in expert the next year.. that's all tim's trying to do..

[GpTrials]

height does not add to the difficulty of a move, it only adds to the difficulty of a missed move; so why go there. My two cents.

[Noel]

i totally agree wit brian. after the comp i went back home and busted my ass to improve so i can hopefully ride expert this season.

the drop heights in sport wearn't tat bad but the run up was crazy mossy and wet cause it rained the nite before

[Rudy Assef]

I've heard some good things about this event and I'm going to make it this year. If I can only go to one event per year this is the one. I hope it's a good one, as I have to make the drive from Canada. I wanted to go to Vultures Knob again, but I don't think thats going to happen. I thought you guys did an exellent job on making the sections at Vulture's Knob last April 23rd. RA....

[Bryan]

I won't be around, otherwise I'd go. I liked the difficulty of the sport sections last year.

[PSouth440]

Raccoon rally is one of the best comps, I wish I could go hope everyone has a blast