Motorama is no more.... [Archive]

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 11:38 AM

Well, from the horses mouth....... Motorama is done. Talked with Brad H (the guy who runs the whole show), with declining numbers and higher expenses in renting the building......they had to drop bike/moto/uni trials segment of the show for 2007. In fact, the past few years it has been operating at a loss.

The show has had its ups and downs over the years, but I always had a good time. I have been to 11 of them, remember when Ot Pi came..... great stuff. The coolest thing about the show was that the people that came year after year, came for one reason....... it was fun! Whatever the level of obstacles or organization.....it was just fun.

Huge thanks to all the people over the years that volunteered their time (and very often their wallets) to make it happen.

RT Wolf

10-31-2006, 11:42 AM

Well...crap. So...James Barton is the reigning champ of Motorama for all eternity? :p

tybikes

10-31-2006, 12:09 PM

Motorama was the first trials event I ever went to...did a school with Ot Pi there, and got to know a lot of great people who helped put on such a big event. I'm sorry to hear that it will be no more.

Maybe we can get something going at an indoor skatepark or at Rays MTB.

john trials

10-31-2006, 12:56 PM

I've never been, but it sure seemed like a great event (and well timed in the middle of the winter).

That truly SUCKS!!!!!!

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

10-31-2006, 01:07 PM

My first Motorama was back in 98 and then 00-06, it was the only comp I ever went to.I'll always remember the first time seeing JJ, do one of his huge side ups and just standing there in awe.

A sad day,
THEDMAN

vaughn

10-31-2006, 01:12 PM

goodbye my lover...goodbye my friend....you have been the one...the one I could never win....sniffle....WHY GOD WHYYYY

Mike Steidley

10-31-2006, 01:24 PM

Man, 2007 would have been my 10th year going....

Does anybody remember what year it was that Ot went?

brian_E

10-31-2006, 01:31 PM

enter ray's..?

well only if there's a raddison near by..

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

10-31-2006, 01:33 PM

PXride

10-31-2006, 01:34 PM

damn... never went but heard it was the shit. Was really looking forward to go this next year whether or not I had the skillz and money this next year.

:(

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 01:35 PM

PXride

10-31-2006, 01:35 PM

The weekend of Motorama is free now and I say we set up a huge group ride in NYC for that weekend. NYC is an awesome place to ride, there's urban and natty and it should be sweet...there is the snow thing. That's where I'm heading for that weekend, all is welcome..

Throw it down, if your down..
THEDMAN

I'd be down if I could make it and of course weather pending...

If not I live in an old industrial mill town with plenty of big brick buildings and have been asking around about space and borowing/renting it for a comp to hold (kinda since i'm not sure 5 possible riders could count as an event?). I was planning on a springish time event if it happens but maybe I could push it to the winter.

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 01:36 PM

Is David Weyman out there????.......... we need sunny warm event in Texas! What ever happend to Lajitas?!... something to lend at least a little pigment to my pasty white ass that time of year!

Edge

10-31-2006, 01:40 PM

Weyman is around. Tishomingo is open for events all year long. We just need the riders to show up.

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 01:42 PM

Weyman is around. Tishomingo is open for events all year long. We just need the riders to show up.

Bitchin', but what is the average temperature in OK in February?

music_maj_34

10-31-2006, 01:45 PM

This sucks! I guess begging at this point would not help!?!?

I'm sure we can find an indoor location that would be affordable to hold this event.
I actually just contacted the Valley Forge Convention Center to see if this type of event could be held there and any addtional information that they could give me. (It may be pricey, but I had to at least look into it)
If we could get a ton of bike shops in the area to come as vendors, we could actually get a pretty decent turnout.

The other thing I was thinking was if we tried to locate a huge warehouse that could rent it to us for the weekend. HHHhmmmm a two day "Motorama" event! That would be pretty sweet!

I've never put together a comp before, so I def can't do this on my own!

Any ideas?

It would be nice to keep this in the NY, NJ, PA area. I'm tired of driving all over the country to these events.

Edge

10-31-2006, 01:45 PM

good question. it's only 2 hours north of Dallas. I'm guessing around 45???

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 01:58 PM

good question. it's only 2 hours north of Dallas. I'm guessing around 45???

We'll need to do that one later in the year then...... I either want to be inside or in a t-shirt and sportin' a little umbrella drink!

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 02:00 PM

What is nearest large city (i.e. would it be easy for people to fly into?). How close are hotels (and do the hotels have lounges!). I'm down for helping, you find a building w/heat for reasonable price and I'm sure the rest can be worked out. Call me.......

This sucks! I guess begging at this point would not help!?!?

I'm sure we can find an indoor location that would be affordable to hold this event.
I actually just contacted the Valley Forge Convention Center to see if this type of event could be held there and any addtional information that they could give me. (It may be pricey, but I had to at least look into it)
If we could get a ton of bike shops in the area to come as vendors, we could actually get a pretty decent turnout.

The other thing I was thinking was if we tried to locate a huge warehouse that could rent it to us for the weekend. HHHhmmmm a two day "Motorama" event! That would be pretty sweet!

I've never put together a comp before, so I def can't do this on my own!

Any ideas?

It would be nice to keep this in the NY, NJ, PA area. I'm tired of driving all over the country to these events.

Edge

10-31-2006, 02:09 PM

We'll need to do that one later in the year then...... I either want to be inside or in a t-shirt and sportin' a little umbrella drink!

I hear ya. I'll probably have 3 comps there next year. Just depends on the moto trials schedule. With Tishomingo in the schedule it looks like we will have 8 comps next year for our area (Texas/Oklahomo/Arkansas). Might be time to start a series :naughty:

mcdub

10-31-2006, 02:30 PM

I always wanted to go to one and party up with some of you.I guess itl never happen now.

Trials is 100% dead.

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

10-31-2006, 02:36 PM

I'd be down to do RAYS, NYC would be cool, it's weather permitting..

Who'd be down for RAYS?
THEDMAN

PXride

10-31-2006, 02:43 PM

I've heard of ray's, where is it?

trialsin usa

10-31-2006, 03:38 PM

I've heard of ray's, where is it?

Cleveland, cool place. However, every inch of Rays is taken up with ramp, northshore, foam pit type of stuff. There is no room for a trials comp.

RomanC

10-31-2006, 03:46 PM

Cleveland, cool place. However, every inch of Rays is taken up with ramp, northshore, foam pit type of stuff. There is no room for a trials comp.
I am sure it might not hurt to ask to see if they want to host such a comp. Obviously people will have to show up otherwise the organisers will eat quite a bit of time and money.

dkoppric

10-31-2006, 03:47 PM

man, what a sad day.... even ryan leech used to show up to motorama..

eastside

10-31-2006, 04:05 PM

Cleveland, cool place. However, every inch of Rays is taken up with ramp, northshore, foam pit type of stuff. There is no room for a trials comp.

Have you seen it recently Tim....It's jam packed now. There are more jumps, Northshore stuff and an XC loop. Plus the trials area only has about 3 obstacles since we didn't get the trials support we needed when we had a huge are. Now we are being squeezed smaller and smaller. It would be rough to set anything up there. We would have to re-enforce all the objects and get permission from Ray to ride every thing in there un-intended manor. So maybe if more trials riders bring there jump bikes and trials bike we can resurect the trials are. If enough people show up and want to ride trials than there will be a "need" for a larger area and maybe even a comp.

mikeyr89

10-31-2006, 05:01 PM

:wtc:

music_maj_34

10-31-2006, 08:05 PM

I've been looking around online for indoor arenas that you can rent and I've actually found some already. Many horse arenas and complexes are pretty cheap and from what I can see, most of them are heated.

Just so I know what to keep an eye out for - Do you guys have any preference if the place is dirt or paved? (I know many people liked it better when Motorama held the trials event in the arena that was paved, that’s why I’m asking.)

I've found some in PA and NH so far, without even looking very hard.

I'm willing to put a lot of effort into making this happen but...

These are the issues that I see, even if we find a place to do this -

1. Getting enough obstacles to have some good sections.
2. Having a place to store everything until the day of the comp
3. Needing a large truck to haul everything to and from the comp.

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

10-31-2006, 09:03 PM

I'd be able to help out with a NH spot, I live in MA.

THEDMAN

koenig52

10-31-2006, 10:38 PM

i liked motorama in the dirt, but i also went for moto and just randomly ended up competing in bike and uni comps:) loved it. that really got me into biketrials. guna miss it :/ drove all the way from KY

Noel

10-31-2006, 11:21 PM

SAD, SAD DAY.

NYC in Feb is not good. too cold and snow left everywhere.

Patrick

11-01-2006, 12:53 AM

Why would you guys want an indoor comp in the winter? Come to Tishomingo, Oklahoma and enjoy 60 degree day temps with the best rocks this side of the Atlantic?? listen to edge

it's no wonder they will pull the 2008 Moto World Round from TTC to Tishomingo.. someone post a link with pics to the "TR". You will see the light

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

11-01-2006, 12:59 AM

Lets just find a place, it's going to take some time to dial it all in..

NYC is out,I'd be down for some warm weather.I know Josh Cummins is from Oklahoma and he also says its nice out there as well.

Lets get it done,
THEDMAN

Noel

11-01-2006, 01:43 AM

We need a replacement comp up in the northeast. Maybe the Lincoln Woods (the one in Rhode Island the year before) or something else.

lucky13

11-01-2006, 03:12 AM

I wouldn't worry about replacements as much as just MORE COMPS. It sounds like there will be a reason to visit south central AND the north east if people get organized.

get your game on...

Patrick: Pete and I were discussing other riding spots nationally and he mentioned that you knew a secret squirell spot in MOAB? Another possibility for the proper season?

mikeyr89

11-01-2006, 05:49 AM

That be awesome if another comp did happen. I'd be willing to help out with what I can, and if it's arround the PA area that would definetly make the trip easier for me. Also, dirt or pavement doesn't matter all that much, eventhough I'd prefeer dirt. Although the tough part is finding obstacles.
-Mikey

music_maj_34

11-01-2006, 06:18 AM

Yeah, I mean nice weather down south sounds great and all, but there are so many people that come out of NY, PA, NJ and all of New England that a local comp for a change is kinda nice. But whatever... I mean I'll go to anything at this point.

Lets suprise the guys in Florida and have a comp there, winner goes to Disney to meet Mickey!:coold:LOL

mcdub

11-01-2006, 06:47 AM

everyone to texas!!!!

Edge

11-01-2006, 07:48 AM

trialsin usa

11-01-2006, 07:55 AM

Actually the NorthEast won't go without comp in 2007. Big Bear Lake in West Virginia will be back.

I have seen the pics of Tishomingo, it is without a doubt a place the NEEDS to have a comp! I'll help with whatever I can. Guess it is time to work up next years schedule.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 08:46 AM

Look. All this talk about more comps more comps more comps....you know what....there are guys out there that are putting on more comps....and guess what......nobody is showing up.

My last event, the Ohio state championship... I had 9 riders. NINE. Cris Santos showed up to ride pro....only to ride against ONE other guy!

What has happened to trials? When Ray's MTB opened in cleveland, there was 2-3000 square feet devoted to trials. nobody showed up to ride it. people wonder why there's only 3 boxes now.

First time I went to a Motorama, they had almost 150 riders...and ever since, numbers have dropped every single year. People wonder why it's cancelled.

Quite frankly, it's frustrating. There are a few people out there that are pouring everything they have into trials...thousands of dollars of their personal money, hundreds of hours, and the support isn't there.

Motorama is gone, and it isn't coming back. we should all get used to that. What the future of trials is in this country....that's up to you. There are events out there. There are guys that are putting on trials comps...all throughout the year. Guess what, kiddies.....those will be gone soon too. I know that I can't operate my series in the red for much longer....and nine riders showing up to an event is not helping.

How many years now has Raccoon Rally "almost" not happened. Old Mickey's Mountain....gone..the last event they had there 5 riders showed up. Candytown....gone, the list goes on and on.

Competitive Trials is dying, friends, and we are the ones killing it. The future of our sport rests squarely upon our shoulders.

lucky13

11-01-2006, 09:04 AM

No advertising.

No incentive to travel without proof of quality turnout/ride-ability.

No local ingenuity to run your own damn comps instead of expecting them to be the old stand-byes i.e. motorama, squamish, sea otter.

I agree with our new Wisconsin refugee: If you build it they will come.

How well you build that, promo it, and provide hospitality for it is STILL up to those who take on organizing it.

I'm certainly not saying that is easy, just that it needs to be done well if you want people to show up.

Seems to me that OTN is not networking quite as well as it could. Perhaps another threader for COMPETITIONS needs to be started? I see so many of the regional ones slip through the calender just due to the info hiding in the regional threads. Sometimes that's for a good reason: I'd love to go to Australia for a comp, but I'm not pulling in that kind of cash to justify it. But this is a US based web forum and it may do us well to keep the lower 48 comps in plain site.

kwilson

11-01-2006, 09:20 AM

I agree with giventofly, there are comps out there, and we need to support them. Without our suppport the organizers will not put their time, money, and blood into the very events that we claim are not happening. The people that are putting on comps need to be commended for what they are doing to try and promote our sport. The idea of a good centralized calander also has merit and should be looked into.

trialsin usa

11-01-2006, 09:30 AM

OK well, I am not going to pile on to why there is a lack of riders at competitions. There is truth both what giventofly and lucky13 say.

I will ad a shortcoming tht falls on our (organizers) shoulders....at least fault I have. That is being louder about asking for help. 3 or 4 people organizing a comp is pretty easy and fun..... 1 or 2, well...is a pain in the ass. And if something is a pain in the ass one tends not to want to do it.

OK...blah, blah, blah..... we have complained enough. Time to organize some fun for next season. I pretty much took the last two years off......... I am ready to have a bit of fun.

Guess it would be helpful for us to get the NATS page back up and running (we don't know why it went down, its a mystery!)..... will work on that next week.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 09:33 AM

Tim.....let's organize a conference call or something with all the midwest and north east trials organizers. Let's get us all into a chat room...or a instant messenger....or a phone call or something. Let's hash this out among those of us that are running the events this year. Call me around 3:30 today.

Edge

11-01-2006, 09:49 AM

Don't forget about us down in Texas :sadwavey: , I'm willing to put 100% in it next year. There are a lot of opportunities here with land owners. I'll do the work IF the riders will show up. Big IF. Our calendar could look like-

Comfort TX
Tishomingo OK
Rock Springs TX
Saint Jo TX
Tishomingo OK
Eureka Springs AR
Devils Den AR
Tishomingo OK

Damn near a comp a month.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 09:56 AM

Sorry, dude......I did forget. My bad. I have been focusing so much on Ohio, and trying to build into a state or regional series, that the rest of the country gets left out of my plans. Unfortunately, Motorama is nowhere near texas.

Perhaps, the best thing for the sport right now would be to focus more on regional series, rather than NATS. if we can get 4 or 5 regional series running and strong.....things might just bounce back.

it looks like you have texas covered.....myself, and about 3-4 other guys have the midwest/northeast working.....we've just never joined forces in an official capacity.

Perhaps the time is now. Perhaps the focus needs to shift back to the grassroots events that started trials in the first place. You event directors...sound off! Hook up! combine your efforts, let us hear what works, and what doesnt. Let's get a ball rolling somewhere.

I'm willing to do my part....let's see a Great Lakes series....or a re-attempt at NEPS...let's see all the events within 300 miles of ohio using the same rules, sharing points, promoting eachother's events.

Edge

11-01-2006, 10:25 AM

that's ok :wavey:

KeepRollin

11-01-2006, 10:44 AM

Perhaps, the best thing for the sport right now would be to focus more on regional series, rather than NATS. if we can get 4 or 5 regional series running and strong.....things might just bounce back.

I think that is a good plan, getting parents to drive their kids more than a couple hours for a competition isn't always an easy task. If we can get more local scenes going, kids can get into the sport and start to get serious and will probably become much more willing to travel for bigger events. Unfortunately I can't always get out to all of the competitions through out the year to support some of you guys, but graudate school does not really put me in a position where I have as much free time, or money, to put into trials as I'd like......

Back on topic, I only went to the past 2 Motoramas when people would complain that they were nothing like "the good ole days." But I still had a lot of fun and met some really cool people there. :hs:

Edit: post number 999 :coold:

music_maj_34

11-01-2006, 11:07 AM

I think that is a good plan, getting parents to drive their kids more than a couple hours for a competition isn't always an easy task. If we can get more local scenes going, kids can get into the sport and start to get serious and will probably become much more willing to travel for bigger events. Unfortunately I can't always get out to all of the competitions through out the year to support some of you guys, but graudate school does not really put me in a position where I have as much free time, or money, to put into trials as I'd like......

Back on topic, I only went to the past 2 Motoramas when people would complain that they were nothing like "the good ole days." But I still had a lot of fun and met some really cool people there. :hs:

Edit: post number 999 :coold:

You and giventofly hit the nail on the head! I would love to be able to go to every single comp all over the country, but financially I just can't do it. People just starting out are typically not going to drive 6+ hours to a comp. I believe this is the biggest reason for the decline of this sport.

If there were local events on a regular basis, I think there would be a big difference in how many people showed up to these events.

I was also thinking that if these events had other bike type events incorporated in them, it would bring more people as well. (I know it would be a lot more work though)

I take my hat off to you guys that organize these events! It must be very frustrating. I will probably experience this next season when I try to put together a few comps in this area.

RomanC

11-01-2006, 11:30 AM

I don't think the sport participation is getting smaller, even though comp attendance is smaller than before.

va_tick

11-01-2006, 11:31 AM

poor promotion, planing and simple logisticss the problem need to organiz a single group of people who setup comps in strategic area in the n.e?

MIKE1968

11-01-2006, 11:44 AM

Very sad...I remember going in 99, or maybe 00 I can't remember dates - but I saw ryan , jeff, JJ, all the people I had watched every night on my VHS player...I was too afraid to go up to them :rofl: , they were celebrities to me.

Elan

11-01-2006, 11:57 AM

youre a celebrity to me.

eastside

11-01-2006, 12:09 PM

There are lots of good points brought up in this discussion. I can't quote all of them. But there are lots of riders in all of our given areas. This forum alone has over 7,000 some users. I know for a fact there are more riders than that out there. So where is everyone? So if all of us in our respective area's team up we can make this sport like it was 6-7 years ago. I would travel to Michigan, WV, OH, NY, PA, FL to compete. And the nice thing was you would see all the same faces showing up to all these events. We can resurect all this. Every state will have 3-6 reps. for there area's. This is tough but we don't have to have 20 events a year, maybe just 2-4 per region. I don't mind helping but I and alot of us on the forum can't sacrafice 4 day's to set up an event with out getting any backing for it. I think this is partially why a lot of events failed. Most co-ordinators were operation in the red. Knowbody likes that! I could go on for day's about pro's and con's to all this.

Edge

11-01-2006, 12:12 PM

I would travel to Michigan, WV, OH, NY, PA, FL and TEXAS to compete.

Fixed it for you.
:Wavey:

trialsin usa

11-01-2006, 12:12 PM

It has always been about the local comps....hell, Motorama was a local comp...just alot of other people used to show up! NATS is nothing but a half dozen local comps connected by rules/points.

"All it take is better organiztion"........your right, but in recent years those of us doing comps don't have that time that must go along with organization. This is not a bitch, as I had not spent a little time up front reaching out for more help..... my bad. So, here I am........ who wants to help with Big Bear Lake in West Virginia next year?.....don't all jump at once!!...heh, heh, heh...

I am totally with whoever suggested that we should beg and plead Matt to ad a COMPS thread to forum.

Edge

11-01-2006, 12:19 PM

So, here I am........ who wants to help with Big Bear Lake in West Virginia next year?.....don't all jump at once!!...heh, heh, heh...

What is that...a 30 hour drive from Dallas? Stan,Patrick, Ross, anyone want to take a drive to the NE?

eastside

11-01-2006, 12:24 PM

Fixed it for you.
:Wavey:

Thanks, But what did you fix?

Edge

11-01-2006, 12:31 PM

I added Texas for you.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 01:19 PM

Tim, I think the point that's being agreed on here, is that we almost need to start over here. Only a handfull of people, mostly pros, ever went to ALL the nats events.

A national series looks good on paper, however, I feel that several small regional serieseses...they would actually draw more riders. In a national format...in a nation as large as ours.....no beginner or sport rider is going to be able to afford to travel to 6 or 8 cities each summer to compete. BUT (and this is important, because beginner and sport riders are the biggest classes) beginners and sport riders WILL afford themselves several trips to nearby states. Thus increasing numbers for each event, through cross promoiton.

My idea is to start fresh. we have (with ohio as the center state) 7-10 events per year within a reasonable drive. but they are individual events. If we all joined together, promoted from within. First event of the year....that event director handed out a schedule for ALL the events for the year in the region....

Then at event #2...that event director, again, handed out schedules to EVERY event for they year in the region...and so on...it would build. slowly at first....but it would build

this has not (to my knowledge) ever happened in trials events. It seems that in the past...the event directors were almost competing with eachother. maybe not consciously...but I think it was there.

We need to work together.

I'm officially proposing this:
Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, PA, NY, WV, Michigan, Ontario. If you've EVER ran an event in any of these areas...email me ombctrialsdirector@gmail.com Let's stop talking and do this thing!!!!

Let's use motorama as a wakeup call. Call in the troops, or summon whatever other metaphore you think is appropriate. I'm not going to sit and watch my sport die. I'm going to continue to grow my own series here in Ohio....I hope to the trials gods that some other riders / event directors steps behind me!

PS...those of you already standing with me...you know who you are....I thank you

eastside

11-01-2006, 01:24 PM

I added Texas for you.

Sorry...Thanks!

eastside

11-01-2006, 01:27 PM

Good points Dan....But don't worry trials will never die. We'll just become more of an outcast sport ;) Maybe we can grow trials like it is in Europe...We can fill arena's with ton's of spectators and riders and not just 10 riders and 4 spectators.

modtire

11-01-2006, 01:44 PM

Here are my thoughts that parallel and give support to others posting here. America is simply too big (geographically) a country for a national series as has run in the past to work given the lack of funded pros. Look at France or Spain, you can drive anywhere within those countries for a weekend comp, not so much here west coast to West Virginia doesn’t work so well. Look at how great turnout was at this years national championship (not Zak’s fault at all). I like the idea of groups of states or areas seceding from NATS and forming their own group. If each one could have a series of 4-5+ comps in the riding season that were all loosely tied together for a sort of local championship. Like how the Midwest has a comp or two here and there (especially Sammy’s great ones), giving it a formal name might be fun for some folks (and look good for sponsorship reasons). It would give us a little sense of purpose and if the desire was their each region could pick one event and that could be part of a “national series.” I know it is a lot of work and so does anyone who’s ever put on a local (let alone national) comp and thank you to everyone who has, but our sport needs it.

A comps forum would be great where we could start listing out possible events and locations to group them together, discuss rules, and share info like landowner tips, insurance…

Takeaway point is this: centralized comps have been declining steadily, lets take this winter to reorganize and make things happen. We’ve got lots of talented riders and people who care, we can fix this, we just can’t stay the course with things the way they are.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 01:53 PM

I would actually take Modtire's response a step further...and create a TRUE regional series. Same rules for each event, with prizes for overal regional champ for the season. a true points series, but on a smaller scale. 2-5 states TOPS. And the idea would to have them overlap. If I start a great lakes series, and someone in NY creates an East coast series....well...logically Thunder Rocks would be a points event for BOTH. It's all about cross promotion.

Edge

11-01-2006, 02:11 PM

Damn, to bad Texas is so far from all of that. How many people do you think would travel to Texas for an event?

trialsin usa

11-01-2006, 02:55 PM

Depending where in Texas, I'd go! Anywhere where it is warmer earlier than here in Buffalo NY! Tell you what, I am diggin' the pics of that place in OK..... we need to zero in on that one! A little cool there in February....but how about April?

NATS is nothing but some regional events connected by points. There is not really anything to dismantle and start from scratch again. The reason for a national series (USA/Canada) is that it helps with attention and sponsorships. There is already a web page (though its gone walk about recently).

OK, now the first test. Pete Wilk had taken care of the web page for a number of years, but has gotten busy with other things. Anyone out there want to commit to taking care of it..... and maybe somehow adding a section so that ALL comps in north america can be listed? I know nothing about webpage stuff (witness trialsin usa webpage!)....... so, any takers? I can offer something really attractive as far as bike stuff............come on, step forward!

Per rules. While I would rather watch no bashring/guard events, the fact of the matter is that there are really only a dozen or two people who get stoked on the idea (all levels). This is going to be an arguement right off the top I can tell. Furthermore, when you have volunteers who are not riders (like parents of beginners or something) are you going to be the one who constantly monitors them to make sure they are checking Expert/Pros to rubber and the other classes not. Believe me, it can cause problems. I say we walk before we run.

Edge

11-01-2006, 03:01 PM

April/May will work. We'll talk soon.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 03:39 PM

Tim, as far as your argument about UCI vs BIU...i'm going to cut that off at the pass....it's not worth talking about in this thread. I don't want a useless UVI vs BIU debate/argument to undermine the positiviey of this thread, so I'll agree to not worry about that for now.

That aside....I will work on the things we talked about, and continue on with our plans. I'd like to hear from some other event directors about this, and see how effectively we can all hook up for 2007.

Let's keep this thread going!

Edge

11-01-2006, 04:02 PM

How realistic is it for the NE to meet up with the South (Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas)? Who's willing to travel and how far? Would it take Big Name riders to attract more people?

giventofly

11-01-2006, 04:09 PM

I don't know if big name riders really attract trials riders. I mean...if you had THE big names...maybe, but unlesss you get someone to pay for it, you'll never recoop the cost of flying them out, and putting them up for the weekend.

As far as NE and South....do be honest with you, I don't know any of my local guys that would fly anywhere for a trials comp. It has to be driving distance, and well less than 1 day's drive.

In my experience...states touching have the best possiblity of attracting riders from eachother. Texas is over a thousand miles away from Northern Ohio. Not gonna happen. :( 300 miles is the max...and 150 is pushing it for most.

Edge

11-01-2006, 04:19 PM

That's what I was thinking. I think the Ocoee Whitewater Trials comp in TN was my longest drive at about 18 hours. Can't say I would drive that far again. It was an awesome comp that Mike put on but a long drive. Most of the comps we go to are about 5 to 7 hours away. Saint Jo and Tishomingo will be the shortest driving distance next year for us at about 2 hours.

onefatpanda

11-01-2006, 04:42 PM

If the riders will show up in Tishomingo, I will handle the entire comp. We already have permission to ride on some of the best natural. All you have to do is show up and ride all weekend.

fatpanda, where are the pics?

Sorry bro, just read the thread. I hope to get the weekend pics up tonight.
Been busy as. :run:

Pics of Tisho below ..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/numbingcoolness

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41843313@N00/

As for the temp worries .. it will be perfect. :drool:

PXride

11-01-2006, 04:44 PM

I think what is holding us back is, like someone said, the pure land mass of our nation, and the ratio of riders to that land.

I could hold my own little BMX or DH or road comp of just people in my town (22,000ppl - Keene, NH) and get at least 20 riders for each... I don't think there are 20 trials riders in New England, I drive three hours just to ride with 3 or 4 other people.

I think the best thing for the sport is to yes, to try and get a few good sized decent comps together, but also to try and get into magazines (like decline), maybe a spot on VC@ on current TV, and for us to keep riding and showing people the sport and what its about... It might sound ridiculous but I think there is some truth to what I'm about to say, however, I'll let you be the judge. We can never really have a ligitimate trials dependent comp (not like motorama) untill people know why we don't have a seat

There isn't much for supply if there is no demand except from a few people on the internet who really really reeeeally want a new comp.

just my $.02

onefatpanda

11-01-2006, 06:00 PM

OK, now the first test. Pete Wilk had taken care of the web page for a number of years, but has gotten busy with other things. Anyone out there want to commit to taking care of it..... and maybe somehow adding a section so that ALL comps in north america can be listed? I know nothing about webpage stuff (witness trialsin usa webpage!)....... so, any takers? I can offer something really attractive as far as bike stuff............come on, step forward!

A few have already suggested this .. don't bother about a new website. It takes a lot of work and money if you want the thing to be done right. For now, Matt can make a new section here on OTN where you can post up where and when comps are etc. After the comp is over, someone writes a review about what happened. You can also have comp rules, regs etc for all to see. Pretty simple and cheap.

Also http://biketrials.com needs to get involved. I know there are a few who for some reason don't like who ever runs it, but tough. If you want this to work, everyone who is currently promoting the sport needs to be involed. Swallow ur pride, get together and start working something out. Set a single rule and regualtion base for running the comps across the US then start small and go from there.

Just something to think about or ignore.

giventofly

11-01-2006, 06:02 PM

I totally agreee. The trials community is too small to have enimies and rifts. Now is the time we need to work together.

THEDEMOLITIONMAN

11-01-2006, 06:48 PM

I'll never forget being there when Nelson and Keita when at it, so see who could side up that huge wall. I believe Nelson managed to get up it and I think it was something like 61"+-.

I'm down to do some traveling, is Rays going to work out?

THEDMAN

giventofly

11-01-2006, 07:07 PM

The odds are very very agains anything happening at Ray's. I've known ray for a long time now, and as has been said elsewhere in this thread:

1...there isn't much trials at ray's anymore. the official "trials area" is 2 boxes and an A-frame
2...the stuff that is fun to ride outside the trials area....wasn't built to withstand trials riding, being hit from the side, bashrings, etc
3...the park would have to be shut down in it's entirety to run a trials comp. Quite frankly....will 150 trials riders show up to justify the cost of shutting the park down?

The support for this park has not been there from the start, from the trials community. We all shot ourselves in the foot for the past 2 years, as far as Ray's MTB is concerned.

When we first started, Ray gave us Three THOUSAND square feet of trials......and nobody showed up to ride it.
If there were even ONE trials rider at ray's every weekend...maybe things would be different, but aside from the 3-5 local guys that go up there.....there's been zilch from the trials community. 1-5 riders per month, average.

jmkeck

11-01-2006, 09:54 PM

I have some woods in Southern Indiana where we ride both bike and moto trials. I am willing to host some type of event, either fun ride or comp

MikeTheBike

11-01-2006, 09:57 PM

Sorry that I've missed this thread. Sixty hours per week job (not by choice) and a new baby make Mike a tired boy.

Anyway, I responded to Dan's email with a bunch of my ideas. I will still be here in the southeast, doing the TTC if nothing else. Dan, I feel your pain with the nine rider turnout. I did an event in Sept. down here at one of the best venues I've ever seen in my life (it's even called Rock Island!) and only had four riders (one of which was me). I'm on board to do whatever it takes to brings US BikeTrials back to life.

BTW, Tim, I've offered to Pete a bunch of times to take over admin for NATrials.com and he said he'd keep at it each time. If you are willing to spend the money on a decent host (maybe Matt?) then I'll build it such that we can give a number of people permission to keep it up to date. Heck, we could possibly even incorporate your site, make it easier to keep up to date and add some ecommerce, should you want it. Let me know.

lucky13

11-02-2006, 03:13 AM

So where is this Ray's you speak of? :hsugh:

Funny that Zak or any other west coast people have not spoken up. Seems like an east coast problem.

CPTA FTW

TheObieOne3226

11-02-2006, 06:51 AM

http://raysmtb.com/

Cleveland, 44102

lucky13

11-02-2006, 06:52 AM

http://sarcasm.com/

middle of nowhere, 66613

trialsbug

11-02-2006, 11:20 AM

A few have already suggested this .. don't bother about a new website. It takes a lot of work and money if you want the thing to be done right. For now, Matt can make a new section here on OTN where you can post up where and when comps are etc. After the comp is over, someone writes a review about what happened. You can also have comp rules, regs etc for all to see. Pretty simple and cheap.

Also http://biketrials.com needs to get involved. I know there are a few who for some reason don't like who ever runs it, but tough. If you want this to work, everyone who is currently promoting the sport needs to be involed. Swallow ur pride, get together and start working something out. Set a single rule and regualtion base for running the comps across the US then start small and go from there.

Just something to think about or ignore.

Biketrials.com has gotten involved. There is already a comp calendar with additional info about comps, reviews, and pictures on there. It is probably the most comprehensive list of comps in the Internet:

http://biketrials.com/comp/events.shtml

MIKE1968

11-02-2006, 01:55 PM

Comps forum...consider it done.

giventofly

11-02-2006, 01:57 PM

wow. Thank you.

trialsrider50

11-02-2006, 01:59 PM

Now is the time we need to work together.

call michael jackson. we're gonna HEAL THE WORLD!

sorry

LanceT

11-02-2006, 02:34 PM

It's truely the end of an era.

Motorama was "the" trials event to attend. If you went to one, that was it, for years.

Trials has no money, that is the problem. Cheap bikes, no major manufacturer support, very few accessories or parts to buy, highly specialized.

We need a family backed operation like Monty or Koxx. It seems to work.

Motorama was good because it piggybacked in on the mototrials. Without that affiliation, it wouldn't have been what it was. Trials needs money, but I don't know where from. What about the "Biltmore Trials National". Now there's some financial backing and infrastructure. OK maybe that won't happen, but I think you see what I mean.

RIP motorama.

RT Wolf

11-02-2006, 02:56 PM

I think what trials needs more than money is centralization. The right people to organize things is important. The money will flow if/when it gets easier to talk to some people in the trials community. The key is not to create something draconian, but simply an organization dedicated to helping trials grow. I think we definitely need a concentrated effort to get things going. I don't have time (or the wherewithal) to talk about what I really mean, I'll do that later maybe.

MIKE1968

11-02-2006, 02:59 PM

hopsalot

11-02-2006, 05:12 PM

The biggest frustration at comps, (motorama) is not starting and ending on time. Most of us have busted our ass to get to a comp on time only to have it go an hour or two late. Or my favorite, you got 4 guys in the car, one is riding sport the other three expert and the event director splits the classes into seperate times, with no previous notice. Ever have an obsticale colapse under you while riding in a section? I have. But not at Giventoflys comps. I respect all of the hard work event promoters do, and I now realize its the detailes that make a great comp. If your going to go to the trouble to have a comp be organized, put being on time and getting those prizes out fast at the top of your list, just as important as good sections. The last four comps I went to were Ohio Trials events and when he says noon til four you better belive it.

Matt

11-02-2006, 09:47 PM

OK... I'm really tired right now so I'm going to bed after posting this and I'm not making a sticky in the meantime since I haven't even really had the chance to test permissions or read this thread for why you guys want one. Andrew requested it in the mod forum and I read a few posts in here and think its a good idea.

Is anyone interested in moderating this forum? I'm not sure I'll add any mods, but someone or two dedicated to trials competitions that would keep stuff in order in there would be a benefit I think.

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Goodnight

RT Wolf

11-03-2006, 09:08 AM

giventofly

11-03-2006, 09:10 AM

Calendar is currently in development

lucky13

11-03-2006, 09:27 AM

^ That's a good idea.

How about a calender page that has lists of the comps in a year according to general geography, like a sticky. Like Northeast Comps, France Events or something. Or does it already exist?

Technically, yes: regional threads.

The point I was making about a competition thread is that if we really want BIG competitions you need only advertise in the one competition thread.

If you have a "let's throw down for who's buying beer and pizza" comp then you should just post in the regional specific to your region. That is unless you really believe that beer and pizza are worth flying out thousands of miles for. :dunno:

giventofly

11-03-2006, 09:33 AM

Technically, yes: regional threads.

The point I was making about a competition thread is that if we really want BIG competitions you need only advertise in the one competition thread.

If you have a "let's throw down for who's buying beer and pizza" comp then you should just post in the regional specific to your region. That is unless you really believe that beer and pizza are worth flying out thousands of miles for. :dunno:
Respectfully, I don't think you could be more incorrect. Trials has fragmented itself over the internet, and it's very very difficult to find events to attend. To suggest that using the furtner fragmentation of this website to hide events in regional sub-forums.....bad idea.

There needs to be ONE graphical calenadar, that has EVERY trials event in the US....in ONE location that everyone can find easily.

If i'm looking for an event to attend....I have to go to OTN, go through all the regional threads, read the main forum, perform a search, then go to Biketrials.com, to Trialsonline, to Biketrials.ca and so on and so on.

Fragmentation is NOT the answer, unity is. Grassroots, national whatever....a comp is a comp, and all comps should be placed in ONE location for everyone to find.

lucky13

11-03-2006, 09:40 AM

I don't think you read the quote. He specified geographic local.

If you have difficulty looking at your own region

"I won't drive more than 300miles to get to a comp"

then I suggest you create your own comps. Good luck.

And if we have to read through them in the general comp list, that's okay. At least I know where to ride in the middle of nowhere.

giventofly

11-03-2006, 09:44 AM

Got ya. sorry about that Lucky13

I do, however, still stand by my thought that fragmentation is bad, and that all events, group rides, comps...everything should be organized and available in one location, rather than divided up into regional forums and multiple websites.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

lucky13

11-03-2006, 09:55 AM

Well, I like that you are enthusiastic, and honestly I'm just cynical and don't want the sport to grow any faster than it already is.

Suppose this thread should get sticky'd to the Comp threader?

RT Wolf

11-03-2006, 10:15 AM

I meant more like, anyone use Google Calender? You can create a buncha calenders, one for each sorta region, and people can select which ones to see? So in month or year view, all the comps show up. It'd be easy and quick to find out there's a comp (or other trials event) for where you might be going to. The regional forums seem to do the job fine, though.

RT Wolf

11-03-2006, 10:18 AM

It is all about the money.

When people get into a position that they can really do something for the sport trials, they have to choose otherwise for financial reasons...

One person can't do everything, it would take a dozen people to all make serious financial sacrifices and work together. This won't happen until the sport is much much larger.

Money is important but if there's one thing I've learned from filmmaking, it's that where there is little money, creativity must take its place. That, and where there's a will, there's a way.

One person may not be able to reasonably do everything, but one person can create the vision and lay the groundwork for everything to be built upon. That, and the donation of time and energy from others on a part-time basis, would be awesome. You're right, we need the sport to become larger before more people can do something like this on a full-time basis and get paid for it. However, we can builid up to that. Slowly, from one person on a part-time basis upto many people doing it full-time can be done.

Lemme just describe what I have in mind. I have in mind, an organization which has two mandates, to support trials, riders and communities in North America and globally, and to help grow trials, the number of riders, corporate support and communities around North America and the world. If the choice comes up to pick between one or the other, supporting current riders would have priority (nothing brings more people in than knowing they'll be treated right).

At the very beginning, and at the least: this organization could create a sorta free competition kit and just put it online. Created from input from people who've put on comps, this kit would help people who're considering putting on a comp get an idea of exactly how to do it. Right now this sorta knowledge is very decentralized and mainly in a few people's heads.

Over time, the organization (let's called it Trials in North America, or TiNA for now) could create a physical kit, which includes things like score cards and tape and a little booklet about putting on trials comps and drumming up interest and so forth, for sale (the viability of this would have to be tested, but it's conceivable to put enough value in there for it become useful).

That alone, I think would support trials riders. And a whole buncha trials riders in one place is one way to gain attention from the public in general. So that particular initiative could take care of both mandates at once. There's many other things like this that can be done. And this is just something one person can do, on a part-time basis.

Over time, TiNA (and the people in it) could be supported by corporate donations, rider donations, and a few commercial ventures (the commercial ventures are preferrable, obviously) including possibly production and distribution of trials media and maybe sell some t-shirts or some shiz.

Is it possible? Hell yes. Will it be hard--hard as hell? Yea. Will it be worth it? I think so.

I doubt that trials can become as large as say basketball or baseball, but it can become significantly larger than it is now (what is it? a coupla thousand riders around NA, at most?). It's gonna keep growing on its own, slowly but surely. With an organization like TiNA, I think we could definitely help trials get much bigger and much faster, and at the same time, supporting trials and the riders. Even if TiNA doesn't grow trials, just supporting riders is something it could do effectively and that alone would be worth it. Obviously, growing trials makes it more economically viable for more people to make money from it. It's like a feedback loop.

Noel

11-03-2006, 01:22 PM

RT Wolf sound like he has a great plan on how to get the ball rolling.

Lovin' the idea.

Matt

11-04-2006, 09:06 AM

lucky13

11-04-2006, 10:06 AM

The means to the end is DIY

do

it

yourself

As Giventofly and RtWolf have noted the only thing left to do is publicate that an event is going on and the magnitude/duration/hospitality available for said event.

Grassroots before Haybales guys. It'll happen, if you really want it to.

You should see how well the localized effort of Mike Baia and Co. of CPTA/Crankworks fame has transformed the local trials scene from a few Ryan Leech/Ot Pi wannabes to ranks of potential national and world champions. Not to mention the "seedliings" of the grassroots movement; children rocking mini-monty beginner class is inspirational.

Work your area, and make something that may eventually be where everyone here wants to gather at.

MikeTheBike

11-05-2006, 02:56 PM

I have now created a calendar (as you can see in the comp forum) and added giventofly as a moderator of the forum/calendar.

I would still prefer a few more moderators for this forum/calendar. Moderating alone gets tiresome.

On the calendar, I am going to allow any registered user to post events, and just require moderator approval before they appear.

Matt, I would be willing to help Dan moderate. However, can it be setup to email us for approval? Between my new job and the new baby, I'm only able to get on OTN once or twice a week.

giventofly

11-05-2006, 03:17 PM

Matt, I would be willing to help Dan moderate. However, can it be setup to email us for approval? Between my new job and the new baby, I'm only able to get on OTN once or twice a week.

Agreed. That would be very much easy if there was some sort of email notification.

RT Wolf

11-05-2006, 04:03 PM

lucky, think globally and act locally? Wow, all those hippie slogans finally make sense.

Bryan

11-05-2006, 05:25 PM

Hosting local events is a good idea.
However I know that, personally, I don't have the cash flow to keep afloat when somebody sues me after breaking their ass at a comp I put on.

trauma100

11-05-2006, 08:58 PM

I would still prefer a few more moderators for this forum/calendar. Moderating alone gets tiresome.

I'm available if need be

MultiRider

11-06-2006, 10:12 AM

Hosting local events is a good idea.
However I know that, personally, I don't have the cash flow to keep afloat when somebody sues me after breaking their ass at a comp I put on.Hosting local events in conjunction with other bike events (preferably dirt) seems like a great way for experienced guys to have fun and build a sense of community as well as get new people interested. There is a 6 event mountain bike race series in Colorado at Winter Park every summer. If someone wanted see about getting something going at those events, I'd be willing to help. Perhaps a trials demo at the first race or two and then a competition at the next few? I don't know anything about putting on an event, but would be very happy to help get something going here in Colorado. The web site for the Winter Park series is www.epicsingletrack.com.

Does anyone have an example of a liability release form they could post? My brother is a VERY successful lawyer and I'm sure he would be willing to help develop something for trials that wold be as airtight as possible. Of course, you can't be completely airtight because if you, as an event promoter, do something to purposefully endanger participants or something truly negligent, they can sue. But I'm sure we could develop something that would protect the promoter and discourage lawsuits.

I think the calendar is a great idea. There are probably quite a few people that are willing to travel to get to a quality event.

MikeTheBike

11-06-2006, 11:43 AM

Does anyone have an example of a liability release form they could post? My brother is a VERY successful lawyer and I'm sure he would be willing to help develop something for trials that wold be as airtight as possible. Of course, you can't be completely airtight because if you, as an event promoter, do something to purposefully endanger participants or something truly negligent, they can sue. But I'm sure we could develop something that would protect the promoter and discourage lawsuits.

It doesn't matter how "airtight" your waiver is - anybody can still sue you, even if they weren't at the event (e.g. parent). However, the waiver increases your odds of winning or, even better, getting the suit dismissed.

I do have a waiver / entry form that I adapted from NORBA's waiver. I tried to use Matt's Image Uploader but it doesn't allow PDF files. Matt, can you add PDF as an accept file format?

LanceT

11-06-2006, 12:27 PM

giventofly

11-06-2006, 12:40 PM

I just heard through the grapevine that according to Gary Fisher, USA Cycling, (which has replaced Norba), is no longer having trials at all, which means no US championship of any kind for trials.

I guess this means trials is going underground for real in the US. Oh well, starting from the ground up is the best way.

Is this news to anyone?
I heard the same thing from Hans Rey on Saturday. It's a shame. All the more reason for us to go grassroots and do it ourselves. I've had much success hooking up with xc series and tagging along on their insurance programs. They ususally have good rates.

Bryan

11-06-2006, 12:59 PM

giventofly

11-06-2006, 01:10 PM

While I am ALL about running events and comps....you make a good point.
My best attended event to date was 3 seasons ago, the "son of gonzo" and it was more of a mass jam than a traditional competition.

I set up 40-50 very short sections, and used a modified version of UNI rules with a positive scoring, hardest sections being worth more points. everybody showed up and it was a 4 hour trials jam...with prizes at the end.

Perhaps some of the smaller events need to think outside the box as far as rules are concerned...and not be afraid to try something new.

I will disagreee (however) about learning and comps....I learn more from getting my ass handed to me at a comp then I ever would at a group ride.

RT Wolf

11-06-2006, 02:00 PM

The next question I'd like to ask is
Should trials be a competitive sport in the US?
We don't have any riders that can give the top euros a run for their money.
Would attendance be higher at events if they weren't competitive?
What about a training camp? (like the mototrials TTC) Competitions are fun, but they are not when the real learning takes place.
Yes.

I've got my money on Barton to kick the euro's snarky asses.

I think between barton, Webster, Andy Listes, we(NA)'ve got a shot. If not, just sitting back and saying they're too good is useless. I know Barton is goin to Worlds and from what I've seen, the kid's gonna do SOMETHING.

music_maj_34

11-06-2006, 03:23 PM

One of the reasons I love going to comps is because all the experienced riders are so helpful with any questions that I may have, and most of them do not hesitate to show me first hand how to improve techniques or whatever. (Thanks guys... you know who you are!)

With this in mind and looking at places such as Spain where the kids are practically born on a trials bike and have an actual school to train people proper techniques. I think it would be great if we could set up some type of group ride next season, but have it set up in more of a "trials school" type deal. Basically having the seasoned veterans work side by side with some of the newer guys. Kind of like a U.S version of KOXX camp.

In my opinion it would not only build friendships and a riders confidence, but it could possibly be a motivating factor in getting people to come out to more events.

Plus I think everyone would have a blast.

Bryan

11-06-2006, 04:44 PM

Matt

11-06-2006, 07:43 PM

Mike & Darrel, thanks for the offers to moderate. I'm out of town right now and my resources are limited for editing all of this stuff, let me take care of it when I get home.

Mike: PDF is available as a file attachment in a post (click "post reply" then choose to upload an attachment). I have up to 250KB approved, if you need more let me know. I think the notice to moderate new calendar events is sent via e-mail, but its something Dan has already asked me about and I'm going to check on it when i get back into town either thursday or friday.

Thanks for everyone's input on this :)

Matt

MikeTheBike

11-07-2006, 11:29 AM

Derf. Yeah, thanks for pointing that out, Matt. I don't know why my brain told me to use the image uploader. That was silly.

Here you go, my entry form / waiver:

MikeTheBike

11-07-2006, 11:33 AM

music_maj_34

11-07-2006, 01:48 PM

Oh, and an FYI to everyone else: We had a BikeTrials training camp at the TTC back in 2003 (I think). It was led by none other than Ot Pi himself. It had pretty good attendance but when we tried to do it the following year with Cesar, only one or two people signed up. A US KoxxKamp might be a nice idea but it would never work in practice - no one would be able to afford it.

Oh.. I didnt know that - Well, thats cool that someone at least attempted it. Dang I wish I lived in Europe!

But anyway... I was really thinking more along the lines of a one time thing or even an annual thing - a massive group ride with the intent of the more experienced riders helping out the newer ones. That really wouldnt cost anything - except for maybe the travel expense.

A trials school would be heaven though!

Sorry for getting off topic!

MultiRider

11-07-2006, 03:15 PM

Oh.. I didnt know that - Well, thats cool that someone at least attempted it. Dang I wish I lived in Europe!

But anyway... I was really thinking more along the lines of a one time thing or even an annual thing - a massive group ride with the intent of the more experienced riders helping out the newer ones. That really wouldnt cost anything - except for maybe the travel expense.

A trials school would be heaven though!

Sorry for getting off topic!
A massive group ride. Hmmmm. A geographically central location would be good. And we'd need to go somewhere with lots of places to ride, lots of rocks. In the perfect world, some place that is a destination for bikers already and has bike shops and such stuff. Hmmmm.

How about Moab?

Or Boulder?

Bryan

11-07-2006, 04:20 PM

A massive group ride. Hmmmm. A geographically central location would be good. And we'd need to go somewhere with lots of places to ride, lots of rocks. In the perfect world, some place that is a destination for bikers already and has bike shops and such stuff. Hmmmm.

How about Moab?

Or Boulder?
We already did that this summer. It was called OTN days. In the end, only about 20 riders came, and those mostly from CO.

music_maj_34

11-07-2006, 09:30 PM

We already did that this summer. It was called OTN days. In the end, only about 20 riders came, and those mostly from CO.

Yeah, I really wanted to go to that! :wtc:

lucky13

11-08-2006, 05:05 AM

We already did that this summer. It was called OTN days. In the end, only about 20 riders came, and those mostly from CO.

It wasn't really Jon's fault that so few (20 is few?) riders came out. He was hemmed in by Crankwerx Trials Comp in Whistler the weekend before, and the Nationals the weekend after.

If only we were all superstars with big travel budgets....

That's why giventofly was right about ALL regions posting on one page. You can figure out a great time that doesn't conflict with other regions if you plan on holding something large.

Man, I wish I had gone to CO this summer,.. I was too poor though.

Bryan

11-08-2006, 07:09 PM

It wasn't really Jon's fault that so few (20 is few?) riders came out. He was hemmed in by Crankwerx Trials Comp in Whistler the weekend before, and the Nationals the weekend after.

If only we were all superstars with big travel budgets....

That's why giventofly was right about ALL regions posting on one page. You can figure out a great time that doesn't conflict with other regions if you plan on holding something large.

Man, I wish I had gone to CO this summer,.. I was too poor though.

I'm not saying it was Jon's fault at all.
OTN days planning started in February. There was enough time. I'm not saying OTN days was a failure at all, quite the contrary. I do think we could have had a better showing, though.