peyto cycles

[morley]

For those who were wondering, paul is back from surgery and the new website is up. cheers.

[guumer]

nice

[toyota200x]

I am really loving those frames and that rear disc mount looks nice. Does anyone know if they last.

[guumer]

they will out last you

[Giant1118]

it is Brett's design, essentially the same as the Brisa design, and Bretts blue bike is still going strong from what I have heard.

[BrettM]

it is Brett's design, essentially the same as the Brisa design, and Bretts blue bike is still going strong from what I have heard.

Haha. Kinda. It was actually kind of depressing. I always secretly hoped I would break the disk mount. The bike is over 2.5 years old now. For 1.5 years it was my trials/street bike. The last year it has been solely at the park and has taken a beating. I just boxed up the frame and sent it to Paul for a crack on the drive side chainstay where it meets the bb. Not bad for a 4 pound frame I guess.

Yes the design is mine. I love it but I will never use it again. The story is I decided to rip off Brisa's idea, but one up them on strength. Post mount is stronger than IS and you could lose the cheap adapter as well. I had never used a post mount brake when I decided to do this. What I have noticed, mostly on the rear, is that there is a fucking ridiculous amount of force on the brake and those goofy washers that make setup a breeze also shift just a hair and take your pads out of alignment. This is a trials only problem I'm sure, and not that huge, but I'm a little bit of a perfectionist I guess. If I get one again it will be a strait rip off of Brisa's design. It would be a 160 mm compatible mount, but spaced for at least an 8 inch rotor...

[toyota200x]

Haha. Kinda. It was actually kind of depressing. I always secretly hoped I would break the disk mount. The bike is over 2.5 years old now. For 1.5 years it was my trials/street bike. The last year it has been solely at the park and has taken a beating. I just boxed up the frame and sent it to Paul for a crack on the drive side chainstay where it meets the bb. Not bad for a 4 pound frame I guess.

Yes the design is mine. I love it but I will never use it again. The story is I decided to rip off Brisa's idea, but one up them on strength. Post mount is stronger than IS and you could lose the cheap adapter as well. I had never used a post mount brake when I decided to do this. What I have noticed, mostly on the rear, is that there is a fucking ridiculous amount of force on the brake and those goofy washers that make setup a breeze also shift just a hair and take your pads out of alignment. This is a trials only problem I'm sure, and not that huge, but I'm a little bit of a perfectionist I guess. If I get one again it will be a strait rip off of Brisa's design. It would be a 160 mm compatible mount, but spaced for at least an 8 inch rotor...

The thing I like about your design the most is that a person can use mechanical disc brakes. Use the brisa design but make enough room for a mechanical disc when you do your next frame.

[BrettM]

The thing I like about your design the most is that a person can use mechanical disc brakes. Use the brisa design but make enough room for a mechanical disc when you do your next frame.

I'm not sure if I will or not. Depends what happens between now and then. I probably will leave the room as a backup but my plan is to go back to a hydro disk brake, and not use a post mount. I think I will leave room for an Avid to fit with the adapter as my backup brake when the hydro leaks tho. Depends. Or I may just suck it up and use rim brakes. I haven't made any decisions yet.

[Mr_Penut]

grood

[Mr_Penut]

im actaully more happy then the internet can convey at this time

[tomacropod]

Haha. Kinda. It was actually kind of depressing. I always secretly hoped I would break the disk mount. The bike is over 2.5 years old now. For 1.5 years it was my trials/street bike. The last year it has been solely at the park and has taken a beating. I just boxed up the frame and sent it to Paul for a crack on the drive side chainstay where it meets the bb. Not bad for a 4 pound frame I guess.

Yes the design is mine. I love it but I will never use it again. The story is I decided to rip off Brisa's idea, but one up them on strength. Post mount is stronger than IS and you could lose the cheap adapter as well. I had never used a post mount brake when I decided to do this. What I have noticed, mostly on the rear, is that there is a fucking ridiculous amount of force on the brake and those goofy washers that make setup a breeze also shift just a hair and take your pads out of alignment. This is a trials only problem I'm sure, and not that huge, but I'm a little bit of a perfectionist I guess. If I get one again it will be a strait rip off of Brisa's design. It would be a 160 mm compatible mount, but spaced for at least an 8 inch rotor...

sounds like you need a mount designed by me :Wavey:

...but better...and steel...

a steel trials frame with a sweet custom disc mount will be among the first things I make...if ever.

- Joel

- Joel

[lucky13]

Yay

[goose]

Haha. Kinda. It was actually kind of depressing. I always secretly hoped I would break the disk mount. The bike is over 2.5 years old now. For 1.5 years it was my trials/street bike. The last year it has been solely at the park and has taken a beating. I just boxed up the frame and sent it to Paul for a crack on the drive side chainstay where it meets the bb. Not bad for a 4 pound frame I guess.

Yes the design is mine. I love it but I will never use it again. The story is I decided to rip off Brisa's idea, but one up them on strength. Post mount is stronger than IS and you could lose the cheap adapter as well. I had never used a post mount brake when I decided to do this. What I have noticed, mostly on the rear, is that there is a fucking ridiculous amount of force on the brake and those goofy washers that make setup a breeze also shift just a hair and take your pads out of alignment. This is a trials only problem I'm sure, and not that huge, but I'm a little bit of a perfectionist I guess. If I get one again it will be a strait rip off of Brisa's design. It would be a 160 mm compatible mount, but spaced for at least an 8 inch rotor...
awe crap, and I was just about to start trying to convince myself (and my wife) that I can afford a peyto with your fancy disc mount. So how would you change it? I don't understand your description. If it's those little spherical mounts that give you problems, you could make solid ones and deal with a non perfectly aligned disc. ... no, thats a stupid idea, I take it back. I enjoyed rear disc so much with the therapy mount, I was totally going for it. Totally. Wrench in my plans, wrench! heheheh...

[morley]

I don't think this is a problem with the disc mount but rather a problem with avid's brakes being really flexy. I have the exact problem on my front brake, as the pads wear on a shady angle. I don't care much about those things, and my avid is missing parts, then again brett can't stand my brakes.

[Giant1118]

I think he just regrets the fact that he made it post mount 203 only, which pretty much gives u one rear brake option and thats the 203 avid. If he had just a regural IS 160 mount with room for up to a 203 rotor, there would be no dilema.

I seem to remember a lil while back that Brett was searching for a hyrdo disc that wouldnt leak, so i think thats what he is getting at...

[morley]

No, brett is for the 203 and thinks it's the only disc to use on the rear. Considering you get signifigantly more breaking power, the additional 40 grames of weight from the bigger rotor isn't that much of a liability.

[Giant1118]

thats not what I meant...I know he only wants to run a 203, but I also know that with his current mount he can ONLY run a 203 AVID. Maybe he would go for a 203 IS mount.

If I were to go custom I would prolly have just a IS 160 mount with the room between the stays to put a 203 caliper...more versitile that way.

[goose]

thats not what I meant...I know he only wants to run a 203, but I also know that with his current mount he can ONLY run a 203 AVID. Maybe he would go for a 203 IS mount.

If I were to go custom I would prolly have just a IS 160 mount with the room between the stays to put a 203 caliper...more versitile that way.

Ya, I think the only risk with that disc mount is the lack of future upgrade potential, because only avid and hayes use post mount, and hopefully they will for some time to come. It'd be possible to use any avid or hayes on that mount, but if some superawesome hope or magura came out = hosed...

At current, I doubt I'd consider any other brake than avid mech, but you never know:). An IS mount spaced to 8" is an intelligent way to go about it, but then I don't think you'd get the same strength improvements that the Brett/Brisa design gives. Either way, this is no easy debate because for $1000+ you want to get it right. Personally, I like the blue design, cause of that bent seatstay. Looks so cool:) The orange one looks slightly less asthetically pleasing (yet function dominates my bike hardware preferences).

[BrettM]

Haha. So far no one has the exact answers. My bike can use any single post mount 160 caliper on the market. Essentially any disk you'd want to use for trials, I can use. The one exception is that one hope/tryall is so far only is mount. The catch is you have to run a 203 mm rotor. It isn't just Avid and Hayes that use post mount. Every single brake company does. You just won't see it as much. I am essentially no more limited to disk choices than anyone else is. If you can think of it, I can run it, except for that try all.

My new setup will be the exact same as above, except I will be using an IS style mounting system. It will still be between the stays to keep it strong. It will be good for any 160 mm caliper on the market, but I will be using a minimum 203 mm rotor, or possibly bigger.

Morley its not a problem with the disk mount, its a problem with the bolt and washers that line it up strait. The force from the brake cock eyes the brake just a bit no matter how tight you get that bolt. If you run an IS mount you won't have that problem.

[goose]

Haha. So far no one has the exact answers. My bike can use any single post mount 160 caliper on the market. Essentially any disk you'd want to use for trials, I can use. The one exception is that one hope/tryall is so far only is mount. The catch is you have to run a 203 mm rotor. It isn't just Avid and Hayes that use post mount. Every single brake company does. You just won't see it as much. I am essentially no more limited to disk choices than anyone else is. If you can think of it, I can run it, except for that try all.

OK, Brett, I'm really curious. How would you run um, say, a magura marta caliper in there. Wouldn't there have to be some form of adaptor? The bolt holes on a marta are perpendicular to the holes on your frame (orange peyto, koxx geo or blue peyto, street geo). Please do tell.


My new setup will be the exact same as above, except I will be using an IS style mounting system. It will still be between the stays to keep it strong. It will be good for any 160 mm caliper on the market, but I will be using a minimum 203 mm rotor, or possibly bigger.


Do you mean that you'll put the IS mounts with one bolt on the seat stay, and one bolt on the chainstay, like your post mount? I guess this is your new baby of a design. But if you think it's any better than what you have, and don't mind spilling the beans, please clarify.


Morley its not a problem with the disk mount, its a problem with the bolt and washers that line it up strait. The force from the brake cock eyes the brake just a bit no matter how tight you get that bolt. If you run an IS mount you won't have that problem.

Just to clarify, you don't mean the problems would stop if you IS mounted your avid with that little forged IS to Post-mount adaptor. I can't see how that would help. You mean if you used a dedicated IS mount brake, like hope or magura, that bolts directly to the IS mount, hence not using those spherical washers, the problem would be alleviated? That makes total sense.

I apologise for all the questions. If y'all remember, I'm the dork who did the therapy mount on his norco TT that resulted in a broken vbrake boss. I really enjoyed rear disc, for those 5 rides, and I was planning on getting peyto to make me a Brett inspired frame. I just want to get all these facts straight from the rear-disc-loving, peyto frame owner himself before I get my heart set and send over my moola.

[BrettM]

A magura marta, along with every single other disk brake you can think of you can buy post mount. It's a Manitou standard, so every single manufacturer does it. You just never really see it.

You are right. An Avid disk will never work right. I've been planning to switch to a dedicated IS brake, with no adapter. Most likely a Marta or Louise. This on an IS tab would be gold.

If you plan on using an Avid setup, use post mount. Its stronger. If you plan on using a setup that doesn't use an adapter to run IS than use IS. It's better for trials.

[lucky13]

So you are ditching your theory about shearing IS bolts? Cool. Email me some ideas man, I'm looking into having Jerry brazing/welding up my permanant rig once I'm done dinking around with china aluminum frames of various geometries.

[BrettM]

I wouldnt' say I'm ditching the theory of shearing off the bolts, I mean its always a possibility. I've spent a good year and a half on IS mounts with disks and never did it. 10 months strait on the one frame. Those were also 160 mm tho.

[lucky13]

First experiment will be on the Desalvo. Replacing the rear dropouts and while we are at it I may as well trim the stays to accommodate some disc dropouts. I think I'll even put a suspension fork on the thing and rock it like a streety/jumpy/trialsy thing.

So far the surly disc dropouts look like the best,.. I don't mind an adapter for whatever the Magura Louise FR is,.. 180?,.

The strictly trials frame will need to have magura mounts and some sort of non adapter big disc mount with the appropriate reinforcement,.. I thought I was going to rock your design,. but???

[tomacropod]

just do an 8" specific IS mount like mine - if it's steel it won't need to be as beefy (of course) and will hold up much better than mine did!

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/gripsport-4.jpg

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/gripsport-1.jpg

yes that's an 8" rotor. I honestly wouldn't be concerned with shearing bolts.

- Joel

[lucky13]

You speak of it as past tense? Did it crack? Or did you just prefer your namby pamby v-brakes?

[tomacropod]

a little bit I preferred V-brakes. A little bit the avid disk didn't work as well as I'd expected on the rear - mostly because the bolt holes in the mount deformed - I didn't opt to have the frame heat treated after the modification and as such it was a little soft! The holes in the mount are now oval shaped and bent inwards a little. After 2 weeks of use!

V-brakes berry nice though. Zoo pads, fresh grind. yummy. would you like some shredded pad with your pasta sir?

- Joel

[goose]

What were you expecting? I found a rear 8" avid mech to be much nicer than a rear vbrake, mostly because of the smooth modulation and ease of lock. Pad wobble was a little bit non-ideal, but then it broke, so I can't really say I got to try it for a whole long time. Maybe I'm just idealising it. I guess, for pure trials, it's not really necessary to have a rear disc because rim brakes with a grind and good pads are easily sufficient, and proven to last.

[BrettM]

First experiment will be on the Desalvo. Replacing the rear dropouts and while we are at it I may as well trim the stays to accommodate some disc dropouts. I think I'll even put a suspension fork on the thing and rock it like a streety/jumpy/trialsy thing.

So far the surly disc dropouts look like the best,.. I don't mind an adapter for whatever the Magura Louise FR is,.. 180?,.

The strictly trials frame will need to have magura mounts and some sort of non adapter big disc mount with the appropriate reinforcement,.. I thought I was going to rock your design,. but???

Is the Louise FR any different from a regualar louise, other than it is 20 mm spaced bigger? If not I'd say go regular louise 160. You then space out your tab to whatever size rotor you want to run. I recommend 203 minimum. What this will do is limit you to always running a 203 mm rotor, but you can run any single 160 mm caliper on the market.

That is what I will be doing, but with the mount inside the stays, instead of on top.

I'm never surprised when I see someone say they didn't like the feel of a disk on the rear. It's something that takes some getting used to. Avid is probably the worst place to start. The pad retention stuff is a joke. You will get the most wheel wobble with this setup, which happens to be the first, and probably only thing you notice going from rim to disk, and it happens to be very very noticable.

My basic plan is to at some point this year run either a Louise or Marta on the rear of my current bike. If it gets my interest going in rear disk again the next frame will see the changes and it will get used. Next frame will also have V mounts tho, so I dunno which road I'm headed down just yet.

[Bren85]

Wow. Those are pretty sweet frames. Im new to the trials scene so I had never seen them before. They look incredibly clean.

[MikeTheBike]

Is the Louise FR any different from a regualar louise, other than it is 20 mm spaced bigger?

As I understand it, the FR does have an ever-so- slightly larger piston in the caliper - like 0.5-1mm or so. It's not much but it does help. I've been running a 180mm FR on the rear and a 203mm FR on the front of a Woodman T-Comp for about 15 months now. I stayed with the stock Magura pads until they wore down (which took about 8-10 months) and then put on EBC Reds. The Reds work great when dry but no so well when wet. I switched back to the Maguras because they get even better when wet.

As for FR versus Marta, I'd say if you have the money, go Marta. They easily work as well, if not a tiny bit better because the pads are oblong instead of round. I don't know it the Marta pads have more contact area or not but they seem to deal better with not being lined up uber-perfectly. Also, I feel like the Marta has lees "pad wobble" than the FRs; though the FRs don't have much.

[TTownJon]

Dunno... I have never had that trouble of the rotor mis-aligning itself on my brake therapy setup. Its pretty much identical to your setup (203 rotor and direct post mounts). The pad wobble is noticeable, but I got used to it REALLY fast. Guess its another one of those personal preference things, but I was able to setup my avid with more power than my maguras have ever had and WAY more bite. The best part: stays the same in all conditions and all ride without so much maintanence. I personally like the feel of avid bb7s though - front and rear.

If I could have transferred the setup to my mod without appreciable price and weight penalties I would have done it. If I ever get a custom mod frame it will definitely have some sort of disk mounts on it.

[BrettM]

A mod is definately the way to go with disks. Stocks are still kinda sketchy.

I would prefer the Marta, but I'll see. Its funny you mention the pad setup. I too would run nothing but stock Magura pads on the brake. I dunno what they use but they work great in the dry, and better in the wet almost. They kick any pad you can stick in an Avid thats for sure.

The caliper movement is very very little. All it does is wear down the pads at a tiny angle, instead of strait on. I used to adjust my brake before every ride or so, it only takes a min to do right from scratch, but I don't anymore. That kept it running perfect. The real reason I want to change the mount is because if I can do something better than I want to. Even tho it is so tiny, I wanna try it.