Magura problem: brake won't get better after bleeding

[reine]

I'm sure you're very excited to see another Magura-issue, but I've searched and not found anything that helps my exact problem.

Ok here it is:
I have HS22 Trials which I believe are from 1999 (YES they are old) and my rear brake is fucking with me. There is a little "loose play" when I push the lever before oil starts moving, and the lever retracs faster than the piston which creates annoying play on the snapback too. I've bled them many times, I've cut the crossover once so the system was practically drained and refilled. I've taken out the lever piston and looked at it, can't imagine many things go wrong with that little piece? Even though I don't really know how the should look. And I've cleaned around the brake cylinders (where the pads sit) so there's no gunk there that would keep the brake from retracting fast.

The front brake works like new. I know you will say "get a new set" but I really don't want to waste money if not necessary so if there is a way to get it working properly I'll keep them a while.

Does anyone have tips on what could be wrong? Maguras don't have many parts so I can't see that it would get fucked just cause it's old?

[chronic]

Well for starters hs22's suck and I would suggest getting an hs33 for the rear anyway because those...are just terrible!

But with that aside, I would flush wd-40 through your brakes a couple times, then run hot water through to flush out the wd-40 jsut to clean them really good. Then maybe lube up your slave cylender seals and master with some sort of good lubricant, and bleed them as best as you can. If that doesn't work.
Your seals may be gone or something?...I can't imagine it being anything really tragic. Usually when stuff like that happens its because the system is just dirty.

[reine]

Well for starters hs22's suck and I would suggest getting an hs33 for the rear anyway because those...are just terrible!

But with that aside, I would flush wd-40 through your brakes a couple times, then run hot water through to flush out the wd-40 jsut to clean them really good. Then maybe lube up your slave cylender seals and master with some sort of good lubricant, and bleed them as best as you can. If that doesn't work.
Your seals may be gone or something?...I can't imagine it being anything really tragic. Usually when stuff like that happens its because the system is just dirty.

Thanks alot for your answer! Actually I read that the Trial brakes have 14mm master piston which is the same as the 33s so they should perform equally?

Do you think I should have grease to lube the cylinders or something thin like WD-40?

[trialsin usa]

Hey,

Very often the issue is that there remains air in the line. I know, you said you bled it a bunch of times. The fact is that a high percentage of time there remains a little air in the master cylinder (lever)..... and a little air is enough to make for a bad day.

On to the (possible) cure.
1. Flick lever a few times.
2. Lay bike down on its side, lever blade pointing down.
3. Open/remove bleed bolt.
4. SLOWLY pull lever until oil rises to the top.
5. slowly let lever blade out while dripping oil into the hole.
6. put bleed bolt back and and try the brake!
7. Sometimes, a second (or even very rarely a third) goround is necessary.

Hope that does it.

At proper permformance, the brake pads on a Magura should move as soon as the lever is touched.

[chronic]

A way that I have been bleeding my brakes is I only use one end of the system to force air out. It works flawlessly for me.

What I do is squeeze the lever a bunch of times to force air to the slave cylenders. Then after doing that a few times, I take a barbed fitting and put a 6" bleeder hose on it.
Unscrew the bleeder screw from my slave cylender and screw the bleed hose in.
Then I dip the end in a bottle of magura blood and kind of bend the hose so its in an upside down U shape.

Then I just squeeze my lever a couple of times and force the air bubbles out into the bottle, and suck up fluid ;)
Takes me less time, there is never a mess. I like it. Maybe give it a shot.

[fizzmahon]

Wow you guys go to alot of trouble, i just bleed the normal way, but during the bleed i wiggle the line and i tap the leverblade with my finger and that gets all the air out. I get a perfect bleed every time and dont have to do any of this extra stuff.

[reine]

A way that I have been bleeding my brakes is I only use one end of the system to force air out. It works flawlessly for me.

What I do is squeeze the lever a bunch of times to force air to the slave cylenders. Then after doing that a few times, I take a barbed fitting and put a 6" bleeder hose on it.
Unscrew the bleeder screw from my slave cylender and screw the bleed hose in.
Then I dip the end in a bottle of magura blood and kind of bend the hose so its in an upside down U shape.

Then I just squeeze my lever a couple of times and force the air bubbles out into the bottle, and suck up fluid ;)
Takes me less time, there is never a mess. I like it. Maybe give it a shot.

Let me see if I got it straight: you dip the hose from the brake cylinder in oil and then push the lever which gets air out and oil in without leaving bubbles? Sound strange to me, but if you say it works! =)

[carnagr]

Here's what I do: Buy v-brakes :rofl:.

[stocktrials]

http://www.execulink.com/~dtierney/wmc/Magura/contents.htm

read the quickbleed bit, Tim pretty much said it.

I have only had to bleed my brake once or twice in my entire life (but done it for a few others). Do it good once, look after it and you'll be set

[reine]

http://www.execulink.com/~dtierney/wmc/Magura/contents.htm

read the quickbleed bit, Tim pretty much said it.

I have only had to bleed my brake once or twice in my entire life (but done it for a few others). Do it good once, look after it and you'll be set

I've done that and it didn't help.

Edit: I tried Tim's way with pushing the lever meanwhile filling oil and it seems a bit better now. The pads move as soon as I push the lever but I still got that annyoing play on the snapback before the master piston gets fully back! What do you guys think is most probable, is it the master or slave cylinders who cause the delay?

[stocktrials]

is the bolt that holds the lever blade onto the actual lever body too tight?

loosen it off a bit to the point so it will come back quickly but isn't too loose...

otherwise that's all i can think of

[reine]

is the bolt that holds the lever blade onto the actual lever body too tight?

loosen it off a bit to the point so it will come back quickly but isn't too loose...

otherwise that's all i can think of

Its not tight, and even if it was that wouldn't cause the issue I have. The leverblade snaps back fast, it's the piston that takes longer time to come back fully against the tpa pin.

[fizzmahon]

What are your brakes bled with or what have they been bled with? If water, the seals may be dried out. Buy new seals. For a temporary fix, get some lubricat such as finish line and grab your brake so that the slave cylinders are out and squirt the lubricant all over them, and then pump your brakes a few times.

That should help.

[reine]

What are your brakes bled with or what have they been bled with? If water, the seals may be dried out. Buy new seals. For a temporary fix, get some lubricat such as finish line and grab your brake so that the slave cylinders are out and squirt the lubricant all over them, and then pump your brakes a few times.

That should help.

I don't know what the previous owner used but it was oil for sure. I'm using Citroen LHM hydraulic oil which a friend and me found out is the same thing as Monty oil. Looks and feels exactly the same.

I've pushed out the slave cylinders as far as possible and lubed it with wd 40. Helped a little bit I think.

[chronic]

Dont use wd-40, it will just dry them out and make it worse.
Just drain your brakes, flush them out, use some new magura oil, oil the seals and they should be good as new.

[Yoda]

Actually I read that the Trial brakes have 14mm master piston which is the same as the 33s so they should perform equally?

That's true, the slave cylinders on both brakes are exactly the same. I think the main difference is that the HS22 doesn't have a TPA knob, the lever design is a bit different, and the stock brake pads are shorter-obviously easily fixed by swapping out brake pads.

[reine]

That's true, the slave cylinders on both brakes are exactly the same. I think the main difference is that the HS22 doesn't have a TPA knob, the lever design is a bit different, and the stock brake pads are shorter-obviously easily fixed by swapping out brake pads.

Mine does have a TPA pad, as well as the racelines I uesd to have. I think the later models had that and the earlier ones had the hex bolt.