Help with taps?

[KoxxLevelRider]

hey ive been working on taps recently but im having a problem of going straight to back wheel. i always land on both wheels. could anyone take a look at this short vid and give me some tips

http://tv.isg.si/site/?q=filebrowser/Koxxlevelrider
"quick taps"
3mb 12 seconds

[uownme]

Really looks like you are reaching for that back tire to even get on the ledge.

I remember someone saying that you need to feel like you are going up a quarter pipe when hitting it.

I always try to feel like my arms are straight, making the front feel like it is low, and hit thru the wall not up and over. I usually have problems going to far backwards though. So yea this will probably not help you at all. anyways i tried

[aki]

Your arms are not extended enough upwards but rather bringing the front wheel down as soon as it hits. The body extension when you hit looks good, just pull the handlebar towards the sky instead of bringing it more forward & parallel to the ground.

I'm practicing taps a lot these days :)

If it helps any check this video out...it's in Japanese but it has some slow-mo tap/french video

http://puretrials.com/trials/videos/french.mpeg

[uownme]

Your arms are not extended enough upwards but rather bringing the front wheel down as soon as it hits. The body extension when you hit looks good, just pull the handlebar towards the sky instead of bringing it more forward & parallel to the ground.

I'm practicing taps a lot these days :)

Yea you are better with words, thats basically what I saw.

[aki]

I'm no expert...Kevin/BC taught me a lot with taps. Still trying to get used to the full pedal stroke which I suck at :\

[KoxxLevelRider]

thanks for the help, ill try that next time i go riding. do my pedal strokes look correct? because thats what i had the most trouble with at first.

[TTownJon]

haha, yeah watch anything Kevin Liu does. He is the owninator of smooth taps. Taps on handrails. Taps on razor sharp rocks. it does appear that you are committing to going forward too much and not enough up.

Jonathan

[Rob.K]

IMO everything looks great, you're just taking off too early. When you take off a little later your wheel will hit more and you'll be shot upwards. I think it's just a timing issue myself, but basically try what the other guys said as well, that will help you think differently which should change your timing up a bit. You'll know that you're tapping correctly when you feel the bike just shoot straight up to the sky with minimal pulling and effort on your part.

[KeepRollin]

You'll know that you're tapping correctly when you feel the bike just shoot straight up to the sky with minimal pulling and effort on your part.

True

But when you're going for something higher and higher you still do need to jump a lot. I also almost never do taps more than a pedal and a half away and usually just a full pedal away. Except in urban you often don't get much more run-up than that anyway so what is the point of practicing using anymore?

[rav]

http://www.biketrial.pl/tap_rav_2005.mpg

Before taping little bent Your knees and move Your body to the back...like preparing to bunny.

[netto]

IMO everything looks great, you're just taking off too early. When you take off a little later your wheel will hit more and you'll be shot upwards. I think it's just a timing issue myself, but basically try what the other guys said as well, that will help you think differently which should change your timing up a bit. You'll know that you're tapping correctly when you feel the bike just shoot straight up to the sky with minimal pulling and effort on your part.

when i tapped over my nipple:naughty: height it took hella effort
dling ur video now

[netto]

take your finger off the front brake
take off a tiny bit earlier
tap a bit higher

[Bryan]

let me preface this by saying I don't know shit about taps.

But take at where you are looking/your head is pointing, as compared to hermance:

Apologies for bad quality photos, they are both obviously video capture, but it shows my point?


http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/bscap126.jpg

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn3/bscap127.jpg

[netto]

here is a video showing 3 different techniques i've learned for taps.
http://romanr.observedtrials.net/videos/tapdivx.avi




first technique :

first technique is pretty much what everyone does. you run your front wheel into the side of the obstacle and use the change of momentum that is resulted from the collision to aid your up.

there are 3 things to pay attention to in this clip:

1. my front wheel keeps spinning after the tap. when i first learned to tap i would subconciously modulate my front brake when i hit the obstacle, this reduces the upwards momentum and also makes it more difficult to stay on rear wheel after the tap. to solve this problem i practiced taps with no finger on the front brake lever.

2. my pedal stroke is 95% finished when my front wheel hits the rock. it is much more comfortable to bring the bike up when your cranks are parallel to the ground.

3. my rear wheel bounces off the side of the rock. this is the result of not locking the rear brake until my wheel is at the very top of the obstacle. i did not intend to bounce the rear wheel, but because i've grown into the habit of not locking the rear brake until i feel that the wheel is over the corner of the obstacle, i can get away with this mistake. it also makes the tap much smoother. try tapping smaller walls to manual.


try tapping with your bike at different angles and different speeds. the general rule is that the more angled(higher point of front wheel contact) the less speed, and vice versa.

your body can only bring the bike up at a certain rate, which means it should take almost the same amount of time to bring the bike up during a tap.

when you are going faster at the wall, you will need more room for your rear wheel to go up. this is acheived by tapping lower(making the rear wheel further away from the obstacle before take off).

when you are going slower at the wall, you dont need as much rooom for your wheel to go up, so you can tap a bit higher. (you usually do this for taping rails or things where you cant tap any lower than the corner of the obstacle.)

determine what is too fast and what is too slow for you.



second technique:

as a short rider, i have a lot of trouble bunny hopping or rolling up obstacles higher than bar height. i learned to tap my front wheel on the way up during a roll up to compensate for this problem.

as you can see, i am moving much faster towards the wall than the first technique. this makes sure that my rear wheel clears the edge of the obstacle to make the up smoother. the front wheel also contacts the obstacle at a much higher spot than the first technique

i lean into the bar right before the tap, and extend my arms forward while sucking my legs up right after the tap. the extension of your arms is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!. keep your body compressed after making the obstacle to make the up smoother.



third technique:

this move feels much more like a rolling wheel switch than a tap. it is very useful for short distance ups or ups with very crappy run up. you cannot move too fast towards the obstacle for this technique. it also doesnt work well for the higher obstacles.

wheelie with your weight clost to your handle bar at a moderate pace towards the wall. have your front wheel contact just above the tip of the obstacle(practice makes perfect). at the exact same time your front wheel makes contact, press down on your body and lift up very quickly(just like you would with a wheel switch).you will feel your front tire compress into the wall. extend your arms up and forward as fast as you can, and suck up your legs.

[netto]

from what i can see in your video
your technique seems to be a lot closer to the second one

[aki]

Awesome tutorial & vid :)

[Elan]

i can do the 3rd technique till about 4" over bar height o na good day. thats the one im most familiar with. the first technique, which is what a "tap" really is, is harder to get down, but thats the only way to get really really high on dat shit.

[netto]

i can do the 3rd technique till about 4" over bar height o na good day. thats the one im most familiar with. the first technique, which is what a "tap" really is, is harder to get down, but thats the only way to get really really high on dat shit.

you're a beast! if only i was white

[Giant1118]

how is the last one a tap?

good tutorial none the less

[netto]

i consider any kinda of up thats aided by contact made with your front wheel a tap

its up to the person i guess

[Giant1118]

i follow, i consider a tap the first one, maybe the second one, the third is more of a hook IMO. Not really a hook, but closer to a hook then a tap.

[netto]

in my opinion if your rear wheel is still on the ground it aint no hook

[Bryan]

it's a touch hop, not a tap and definitely not a hook

[AgrAde]

it's a touch hop

[TTownJon]

why the fuck do we always have to get in these stupid nomanclature (how is that spelled anyway?) arguments? The point is these are all moves where the front wheel is hitting the wall one way or the other, to similar effect.

Good write up kevin. When can we here the one about tapping razor thin rocks over handlebar height?

Jonathan

[netto]

send me the clip and ill write it up! i could write up that lil rear wheel tap drop thing too

[Bryan]

yeah but it's not a similar effect? A tap boosts you a lot, whereas a touch just sort of, helps you be more consistent?

[hello?]

netto..how high can you tap???

[TTownJon]

to me, both a touch hop and a tap let you go higher with less effort, and both involve hitting the front wheel on the object. I guess its wierd to me because as I get to a certain height (handlebar or so) they both kinda blur together.

anyway, I really don't want to get into that argument again since it seems to come up in every thread that involves either move.

Jonathan

[netto]

netto..how high can you tap???
i dont think i have an exact answer for that hahaha
a flat wall i can probably do 49"? maybe 50"

on slanted stuff i can do bigger, but thats cheating because you can roll your front wheel along it and then push it to rear!

[netto]

someone measure that big tap at marenakas?

[Bryan]

on slanted stuff i can do bigger, but thats cheating because you can roll your front wheel along it and then push it to rear!

Hey,

This might be a big request but

I wondered if anyone could write a tutorial on that one, it seems so useful (not only for trials). Is knowing how to tap really well a prerequisite?

[netto]

sure thing ill go film it

[cdionneII]

i'm lucky enough to live close to two sloping walls(height varying 8" to 6' over a twenty foot length) which will be excerrent for trying these ill techniques. thanks to all involved parties. who knows if i'll put them to use in the warm weather we're supposed to get later this week:run:

[netto]

before i go out and film it
practice gapping to front wheel then pushing to rear wheel without using front brake

find a slanted rock to gap to.

kinda like this
http://romanr.observedtrials.net/videos/frontorear.avi

rolling your front wheel on slants then pushing to rear is the same idea, except a hell lot faster. and the bails get uglier. if you use the momentum to your advantage you can actually get your rear wheel higher than when your front wheel leaves off

you dont really need to know how to tap. but you need to know how to roll up decent size walls smoothly.

[netto]

i'm lucky enough to live close to two sloping walls(height varying 8" to 6' over a twenty foot length) which will be excerrent for trying these ill techniques. thanks to all involved parties. who knows if i'll put them to use in the warm weather we're supposed to get later this week:run:

start on a perfectly flat wall. something like 40" high(depends on your wheel base i guess?). if you've never tapped before, aim half an inch under the corner, and start far away.

to decide when you will start taking off with a full pedal stroke, take your bike and place the front wheel on the wall where you want to hit. have your foward pedal at the 10 o'clock position. roll your bike backwards and watch ur cranks pedal backwards until the forward pedal is again at the 10 o'clock position(one full pedal stroke). place a branch or something to keep track of this take off point.

do a single stroke with your foward foot and coast towards the wall at jogging pace, as you reach the take off point, start pedaling again. the first stroke(forward foot) is light. the purpose of this stroke is to control your speed(you've probably slowed down a bit since coasting), and to begin unweighting the front wheel. the second stroke(back foot) is slightly harder. during this stroke your front wheel should be off the ground. the final stroke(foward foot again) is to make final adjustaments to the height of your front wheel so that it hits the planned area. it also serves as a boost in momentum. pedal hard for the final stroke.

if this is done right, it would feel like you are doing a wheely into the wall. your pedal stroke should be just about finished when your front wheel hits.

the exact same time the front wheel hits, jump up with your body(not forward) and push forward and up with your arms while sucking up your legs. your arms should be fully stretched when your rear wheel gets on the obstacle.

practice this for a while until you can hit it all the time. then read my previous post to fine tune different techniques

[MIKE1968]

I'm pretty into moto style taps right now. Just go really fast, tap your front and slam your rear tire into the wall 2 feet below the top of the wall :)


It will roll up nicely.

[cdionneII]

thanks for the text netto. i watched the vid with crazn sub titles and the measuring the pedal stroke part will prolly help me out tons. I can pedal up to rear about handlebar height consistently, but since i got a new bike (1080, born and raised on a 1016 bitches!) i've been itching to try more front wheel stuff, taps, etc.

BTW, the walls i spoke of are 90 from the ground, they slope from left to right and vice versa. "adjustable" obstacles for this sort of practice.

i'd post pics, but i hate draggin expensive shit with me on rides.

[Stikman]

Hey,

This might be a big request but

I wondered if anyone could write a tutorial on that one, it seems so useful (not only for trials). Is knowing how to tap really well a prerequisite?

Czech out http://www.trashzen.com/

If this link leads you to the homepage, click on CLIMBING, then go to the link for tapping.
I read this the other day and it helped me heaps.

[Bryan]

before i go out and film it
practice gapping to front wheel then pushing to rear wheel without using front brake

find a slanted rock to gap to.

kinda like this
http://romanr.observedtrials.net/videos/frontorear.avi

rolling your front wheel on slants then pushing to rear is the same idea, except a hell lot faster. and the bails get uglier. if you use the momentum to your advantage you can actually get your rear wheel higher than when your front wheel leaves off

you dont really need to know how to tap. but you need to know how to roll up decent size walls smoothly.

Thanks! I'll start working on that. Ugly bails? How do they come about (so I can avoid them)

How big is decent size? Head tube? higher?

[netto]

headtube should be good enough
ugly bails as in ull need a new face
i've hit my chin a couple times

[KoxxLevelRider]

thanks a lot kevin.

i def think my style now is your 2nd technique.

i occasionally do the 1st technique if i start closer to the wall and have a bit of luck.

i just started to learn wheel switches and can hit about 6 inches over a wheel height but i cant do a touch hop to save my life.

videos really helped though!

[KoxxLevelRider]

kevin you should really add your posts to that sticky with all the moves and pics to match up. im sure it would be very usefull to a lot of people.

[eXtreme_one]

I had problems with taps too but you have to think a bit at the move and try to play with the speed and angle and how you throw your body...

[airfruit]

kevin taught me how to tap, he's le good at taps. I'm jealous of his tap. I still have no consistency, but I can tap, lol. When ever I think of how to tap, I mess up.

[Matty]

Nice.

Im practicing them at the moment,aint got much confident though...

[Matt Staples]

don't touch your brakes until you feel your backwheel touch the object.

+everything kevin said.


moto-taps are for men only. and the cause of my egged wheel:run:

[Mordax]

well shit kevin, wanna teach me sometime?
been wanting to learn taps for awhile
sounds like you're the one to go to, haha

[netto]

:) sure

[Milton Burl]

why the fuck do we always have to get in these stupid nomanclature (how is that spelled anyway?) arguments? The point is these are all moves where the front wheel is hitting the wall one way or the other, to similar effect.

Good write up kevin. When can we here the one about tapping razor thin rocks over handlebar height?

Jonathan
Impressive write-up Kevin. Im with john....Razor tap review please.
My nipples are at 58". If I can ever tap that...I will need new pants.

[Jamis]

because I like knowing about the actual physics...


first technique :

first technique is pretty much what everyone does. you run your front wheel into the side of the obstacle and use the change of momentum that is resulted from the collision to aid your up.


So it's the riders forward momentum changing into upwards momentum (because the front wheel wants to continue being lifted up... ) that allows the rider to get more upward movement into what really is a powered bunnyhop...

I guess I've figured it out by typing this... the front wheel bounces up and off the wall... but the rider is able to push the wheel back against the bounce and over the edge....

Is there a noticeable bounce back of the front wheel or am I completely wrong...?

[KeepRollin]

I'll give this one a shot, the answer is yes and no, the bike does shoot back at you a bit, but your body's momentum should still be driving forward. You use the tap to drive the bike upwards added to jumping with your legs and use your body's momentum to push the bike forward and up onto the object.

[netto]

Is there a noticeable bounce back of the front wheel or am I completely wrong...?

it all depends on your speed and angle.

[Caesbiketrial]

thanx soo helpful info!! it works!! if you can add info of the wheel switch or touch hop technique!!

cheers!