High bb's - Opinions

[greg9]

Of those who have rode any high bb frame what opinions did you have of the frame and how the frame rode, was it easier/harder than a normal bb rise frame? With so many mixed views on them I cant decide wheter to go high bb or not.

Cheers

Greg

[AndyT]

i can't figure out how to gap or tap without looping out...it is wierd sidehopping too, but i think you can probably get used to it.

[Giant1118]

I rode a GU and didnt really like it, mind you i just hoped around a lil bit, didnt really try anything too serious. For some reason that seems what stock bikes are progressing to (big mods).

[greg9]

i can't figure out how to gap or tap without looping out...it is wierd sidehopping too, but i think you can probably get used to it.Cheers for the reply,

What frame have you rode, so you feel a normal bb height frame is much easier to tap/sidehop/gap. Thats what im worried about if I by one as ive read alot of peoples views on the loopyness of the frames and how they much prefer their old low bb rise frames. Why can manufatures offer 2 different heights in their frames, for example the Czar is soooo nice if only it came in low bb!

Thanks

Greg

[AndyT]

05 pitbull, 06 pitbull, 06 hi fi...friends have the latter two. One rider really loves his, the other is kind of iffy on it- some things are easier some are not. Taps aren't as consitent. Both notice sidehops are wierd.

[Giant1118]

its something you can get used to though, its just the fact that we are all pretty much used to our frames wiff no or little to no rise and now they jump all the way to 5 cm.

[WhiteRavenKS]

andrewzle- try a longer stem. it will get your weight forward a bit and can help counter that loop outy feeling.

from what ive tried of the high bb stuff, it seems like any other change you make- it has advantages and it has drawbacks. you should take that into consideration when buying it. will the benifits of rear wheel stability, hooks, added clearence, etc make up for the awkward two wheel riding, funky feeling slaps and sidehops with your particular style of riding?

personally im not a fan of them being up 60mm's but i dont like them as low as i used to for sure. i bet if i spent a lot of time on a high bb bike i would grow to liek the advantages just because im more of a comp style rider (even though i suck at comps).

[KeepRollin]

After riding a Tibo/Alibongo with +20 then going back down to a woodman 0 to +10 I couldn't imagine going up to +60. I would think +25 to +35 seems like it would be reasonable. But as said before, I bet you would get used to it.

[Don Coyote]

Do they really feel like a mod? Does anyone have significant experience riding a mod and has tried a high bb stock?

I ride mostly mod (3/4) and some stock (1/4), so I'd be interested in anything that helps ease the transition when moving back and forth.

[Boumm]

+30 is surely a nice compromise.

[DangerousDave]

its nice for uci riding because your not constantly dragging your pedals on everything, big moves i found were a bit better, but the overall feel and ride of the bikes is what really pisses me off.

[Elan]

ive ridden a few vincos and absolutely loved them. ive ridden a hifi and hated it. :dunno:

[LanceT]

I have made a few posts on this, so I will try to sum up. I went from a Zebdi, (zero drop) to an AliBongo (+30 w/ 425mm fork) to a HIFI, (+55). So I had a smooth progression up in the BB height. I noticed that all my moves were better with the higher BB; sidehop (although only from backwheel) gap, bunnyhop, tap. The only thing that was worse was gapping to rear wheel. I think TRA mentiond this too after testing the Vinco. This may be due to the fact that the higher BB makes the rear wheel balance point higher, so when you hit the backwheel with forward momentum, it is easier to throw the front down too low and lose the balance. Other than that, just general balance was worse when hopping or riding in between big moves. I never noticed any looping out problems. Perhaps I did and just corrected. I do feel that I need to throw my body more and rely on using the bike as a lever less on gaps and ups. Just use the bike as a platform to allow your body to jump. The high BB, short chainstay bikes do move very quickly though, so it's easy for it to get away from you. I agree with something that was mentioned after Vinco started riding his new high BB bikes. They are better for manmade obstacles that are flat and square. I think it is harder on natural or uneven surfaces to ride the high BB geometry. And of course, it also depends on the rider. I would say Mr. Vinco feels just fine, as does TRA.

[Ali C]

I had a hi fi

At first I thought it was the bees knees, but after a week or two I started to hate it. I got rid of it after a month.

I HATED the overall feel, especiallu when both wheels are on the floor, but I also hated the way it was too stable on the rear wheel, it felt like a pogo stick.

The week before I got it, I was just getting good at taps (47") but when I got the hi fi I just couldnt do them AT ALL! My back wheel would just whack the wall (looping out?)

Gaps were pretty much the same distance wise, but felt much more dodgy on the landings, it just felt like I was just gonna fall over backwards unless I landed with my weight perfectly balenced.

Sidehops didnt change

I went to sweden to ride the euro champs on the hi fi, shame really as I thought it sucked on natural. My balence isnt great, but with the extra unstability of the high bb, I would just fall over for the most stupid reasons.

I sold the hi fi and got a control with +10 bb, I LOVE this frame, its the best I have ever ridden.

there you go, high bbs = crap medium to low bbs = good :) (for me anyway)

[greg9]

Thanks for all the replies,

Has anybody rode the Vario Styx, as that has only a +30 bb rise?

Cheers

Greg

[LanceT]

As far as people observing that stock bikes are getting more like big mods, I agree that it does seem to be the case. Especially with respect to the BB though, it is important to consider how high off the ground you actually are with a given BB height. Whereas the ride characteristics are more relative to how high over the axels the BB is, the balance is a component of that in conjunction with how high off the ground you are actually standing. As is evident when looking at BMX bikes, their BB's are over the axel height. The higher up over the axel the BB, the more responsive, I guess you could say the bike is. The only problem with this concept as it relates to the 26" bikes closing the gap to 20" bikes is, you are about three inches higher off the ground on a stock bike, (due to the wheel size) than you are on the mod. This means worse balance to get the similar ride responsiveness. Bear in mind this is in my own words and is nothing official, but in my experience, high BB 26" bikes are never going to feel like 20" bikes. It just isn't the same thing. You will always have to choose between one or the other. This is why the old school NJ crew always felt that 26" trials sections should include more techincal riding and less hopping. If you want to hop, get a mod. But people sure seem to hop those stocks bikes well too.
I actually learned that how high over the axels the BB is can be a problem on a MTB the hard way. I had a PX Zebdi at the Sea Otter about 4 years ago. I wanted to race the Mountain Cross and PX was going to hook me up. They offered me a new Jack Flash that was supposed to be more of a street/jump bike than in previous years. So after riding it around a bit I thought it felt a little funny. After measuring I saw that the frame was about 15 inches off the ground at the BB, as opposed to about 12 on my previous jump bike. Basically the one I got was like a longer Zebdi with a suspension fork. I was not sure it would work, but I was really fired up so I went for it....in pro no less! Needless to say it wasn't too good. I actually made all the jumps on the course in practice, (in the race they actually closed a section of the course because NORBA said it was too dangerous), but I did crash several times in practice and thought I broke a finger. It was basically rediculous to be trying to race down a mountain on a hardtail that is that high off the ground, not to mention I am not that good to begin with. I think my old teamate Cedric said it best when he commented, "paint looks good, but something seems different?". Yeah, the bike was way too high and I felt like I was going to fall over in every turn. Another guy was looking at the bike and said, "man, why are your handlebars so high?" After I suggested he actually get on the bike, he understood. The point is, you can't use 20" geometry on a 26" bike. It doesn't work.

[trauma100]

Lance your AV = :bowdown:

[chrishayton]

i have a vinco and love it, it rides so much better than my 1065 levelboss, on natural its great, feel nice and manoverable(sp) and the high bb helps if riding uci rules. for street its also amazing, sidehops are great, i can gap far on it (8 ft 6 level static) and it taps well (although i dint used to tap the levelboss much)
BUT! i have a theory, high bb and super short back end is bad. they loop out way to much , but the vinco has relativly long stays (385mm, oposed to 375 mm on a hifi/GU) and doesnt loop out at all, my mate has a GU and i hate the way it rides compared to the vinco. so if you go high bb go VINCO!

[ben@slctrials.com]

went from 0mm bb rise to the new pitbull, which i believe is 55mm rise?


taps were pretty much the same but just a little different, had to adjust the technique

side hops got bigger

rear wheel ups got bigger

feels nicer on back wheel

more flicky with higher stem.


two wheel balance harder, wedge harder.

overall i love it!

[Rob.K]

I still like the way my old woodman felt. -10 BB.....I find it damn hard to get used to the higher bb.

[Trialsaddict]

i have a vinco and love it, it rides so much better than my 1065 levelboss, on natural its great, feel nice and manoverable(sp) and the high bb helps if riding uci rules. for street its also amazing, sidehops are great, i can gap far on it (8 ft 6 level static) and it taps well (although i dint used to tap the levelboss much)
BUT! i have a theory, high bb and super short back end is bad. they loop out way to much , but the vinco has relativly long stays (385mm, oposed to 375 mm on a hifi/GU) and doesnt loop out at all, my mate has a GU and i hate the way it rides compared to the vinco. so if you go high bb go VINCO!
Most logical thing I've read so far. I was thinking the exact same theory. Look at a mod bike's chain stays, they aren't as short as they could be... That would change the looping out problem for sure, but still have a high BB....

:dunno:

[RomanC]

went from 0mm bb rise to the new pitbull, which i believe is 55mm rise?


taps were pretty much the same but just a little different, had to adjust the technique

side hops got bigger

rear wheel ups got bigger

feels nicer on back wheel

more flicky with higher stem.


two wheel balance harder, wedge harder.

overall i love it!
I feel exactly the same about my 1065 BT 6.0, except that the taps became a lot easier and consistent compared to my 4.0

[trialskid14]

I wont go back from a zoo python. the clearance with out a bash and bb rise is insane. little hard to get use to but I think its better.

[aki]

I guess from what I'm reading it's a matter of adjusting? Building the bike last night with the guys my 6.0 measured 40mm+ which didn't look high at all. We'll see how it rides today...

[AndyT]

Lance your AV = :bowdown:

:2002 hollerrrrrrrr:


http://www.observedtrials.net/otn2/andyCAT.jpg

[LanceT]

Oh yeah...

[MIKE1968]

I couldn't even bunnyhop when I started watching evolve :o take that

[[BMF] Chris]

who needs 02' when you got 1999....... GO TEAM VOLVO!!!!!!

http://www.observedtrials.net/otn2/99lance_vert3_lrg.bmp



http://www.observedtrials.net/otn2/2LANCE.bmp

i took the second pic and mirrored it years ago, does anyone else think its weird that the clouds made a teddy bear face?

[AndyT]

I see a scary dog eating babies?

[Peace]

i see one of those aliens from space invaders on atari....

[LanceT]

I have to hand it to you guys. This message board has a real knack for taking things in new and un-forseen directions. It's always entertaining.

But I have to warn you that Volvo Cars of North America has the exclusive right to restrict any use, re-publication, or re-formatting of all Volvo-Cannondale Mountain Bike Race Team images and marketing materials without their express written consent.

I can not authorize, condone, or consent to said "mirroring" of team materials or acknowledge consequent "bear" likenesses or any other resultant forms, animal or otherwise.

Thanks you and good day.

[Peace]

hahaha read and signed a few waivers & contracts there lance?

[WhiteRavenKS]

i see a mogwai.

[trauma100]

i see a mogwai.http://www.mobile-welt.net/AMC/AMC%20Gremlin.jpg

[werkinit]

shweet ! Is that a pregnant 14 year old waiting for her shaggy ass rocker boyfriend
to pick up an 8 track of black sabbath.

[Anon.]

andrewzle- try a longer stem. it will get your weight forward a bit and can help counter that loop outy feeling.
I thought the main problem was that it did put your weight over the front wheel anyway? Because if you think of it like a pivot, you're being thrown more over the front with a higher BB. This high centre of gravity seems to be what kills the on-2-wheels feeling of higher BB bikes, and would make stuff like taps harder because the front end would feel lower relative to a lower BB'd bike. That'd mean it would be harder to lift the front, and so on.

If you remember with the Vinco, you generally have to run a mod stem on that to get the weight distribution balanced again (you've effectively raised both contacts points, so it'd be more stable), so maybe a higher rise stem would do the trick?

Going from a T-Pro to a Zip (inch higher BB, total of 65mm rise with mine now...) has made everything better. I had a high front on the T-Pro, so it's relatively lower now on the Zip due to the BB rise, and shit just feels good. Obviously extremely high BB's aren't going to feel shit hot with shorter stays on a stock, but I reckon rise is still a good thing...

[trauma100]

shweet ! Is that a pregnant 14 year old waiting for her shaggy ass rocker boyfriend
to pick up an 8 track of black sabbath.no... believe it's the America single "a horse with no name'

[AndyT]

I thought the main problem was that it did put your weight over the front wheel anyway? Because if you think of it like a pivot, you're being thrown more over the front with a higher BB. This high centre of gravity seems to be what kills the on-2-wheels feeling of higher BB bikes, and would make stuff like taps harder because the front end would feel lower relative to a lower BB'd bike. That'd mean it would be harder to lift the front, and so on.

If you remember with the Vinco, you generally have to run a mod stem on that to get the weight distribution balanced again (you've effectively raised both contacts points, so it'd be more stable), so maybe a higher rise stem would do the trick?

Going from a T-Pro to a Zip (inch higher BB, total of 65mm rise with mine now...) has made everything better. I had a high front on the T-Pro, so it's relatively lower now on the Zip due to the BB rise, and shit just feels good. Obviously extremely high BB's aren't going to feel shit hot with shorter stays on a stock, but I reckon rise is still a good thing...
completely wrong. This is the first bike in 5 years that I can bunnyhop with ease, the high bb makes the front end come up like a dream. It is looping out because when I'm tapping at the same place, my bb in higher and the rear wheel is more forward and I loop out. If I go at 1/2 the normal speed I can get up the wall, if I go at normal speed or fast I just loop out. I'm still struggling with walls I could do 2-3 years ago. I can't even attempt some of the taps I could do on the first koxx levelboss the USA had ever seen.

[LanceT]

I'm with you on that Andy. I couldn't believe when I first got on the HIFI and thought I would try a bunnyhop. I thought for sure the front end would just run straight into the wall. It was actually the last move I tried on the new bike. But it was the best. The HIFI seems to just spring into the air instantly. Inversely, I am still trying to get a handle on the taps. I was hoping for a little more out of this bike in that department. It could just be me, but when you said that the faster you go the more the bike loops out it rang a bell. If I go slowly and completely pedal through with a real deliberate motion the bike goes up well. If I charge at the wall and try to really run the front wheel in, the front end just pops up and I get nothing out of it. It is partly skill level, but the short chainstay/high BB may have something to do with it. I have never ridden a bike I couldn't bunnyhop though. I think I always put on a short/high enough stem so I can pull up easily. In which case I may not be the best judge.

If you really picture the front tap/touch motion, it would make sense that the higher up your feet are and the shorter the rear is, as you pedal up to hit the front wheel, your feet are basically going back on an arch and your rear wheel is going forward and more under you. That is going to happen faster with the geometry we are discussing. I feel like my bike needs a very long and somewhat high stem to compensate for the geometry. I have a 130x30 now. I feel like I need a 150x20 or something. I think to get the most out of the taps, it is essential to hit the wheel lower than it seems you should as well.

[cveto]

...i have GU and i noticed the same things,bunnyhops no problems,side hops no problems,whent even higer.But gaps,i can't do static gaps that i do it with ZOO!Pitbull 04.I'm shorter for 15-20cm and when I land it just "shot" me forward.Also 180 are nightmare with GU,but surges are orgasm.Taps i had problems at begginig but i got used to it.

[AndyT]

well after a serious ride and a lot of thinking I've come to a conclusion about the High BB's...


It isn't that you are going too fast into it and looping out, its that we are hitting the wrong spot (too high)- we are used to riding a 0 or less rise bb...with my woodman, the faster I went into stuff the higher I would go (it had a DROPPED bb), this was more or les the same with my pure and my xtp. Hitting the wrong spot is obvious to our brains, but our body can't seem to get used to it. I've been hitting the same spot for 2+ years with no rise bb's and I'm just used to that...here is where I'm going off on a limb:


My thesis is that the high bb favors a harder gear and a completely different style of tap.


Watch that recent cologne video with vincent and kenny tapping at the end. Vincent is basically keeping his front wheel at a certain height untill it reaches the wall...as he is approaching the wall his front end gets to a certain height and he basically just wheelies (keeping the front end EXACTLY at the same point) into the wall for 2-3 feet untill he completely slams into it and shoots up. Taps used to be just going towards the wall and as you are pulling up your front wheel taps it; vincent isn't doing this; he isn't tapping anymore...he's gone beyond that he is now slamming. This is how he can do that slam to front/rear trick up those 10 palletes- his body position and the timing of how he hits can throw his body up into an endo as opposed to a normal tap which would shoot the bike up from under you. I've seen giacomo do this style as well in france. A lighter gear would favor picking your front wheel up really easily, and it will be a bit twitchier- a harder gear will give you more power and it will look slower and methodical...since you only have to bring your front wheel up a certain amount and then just slam the fuck out of that wheel a harder gear is the ticket to success (along with shitloads of practice).

Now to something that concerns us...when we are going slowly at the wall and it taps fine we are at the perfect spot to tap. But we have no power or speed to get up really big things. When we tap going fast we just loop out, no good even though we have the power and speed... A harder gear has all the power and speed, but it won't pick up your front end as fast as a lighter gear will and you will be able to transfer that power and speed better into the slam (yes, I am renaming this move...take note :) ) ...over all I think getting used to this new style of bike will be a welcomed change, but you have to be very methodical in your riding and much more carefull about where you can tap than in the past because if you get too far up on the wall/rock you are fucked.

[smudge]

well after a serious ride and a lot of thinking I've come to a conclusion about the High BB's...

...transfer that power and speed better into the slam (yes, I am renaming this move...take note :) ) ...over all I think getting used to this new style of bike will be a welcomed change, but you have to be very methodical in your riding and much more carefull about where you can tap than in the past because if you get too far up on the wall/rock you are fucked.
1. Great post.
2. I'm looking forward to adding yet another trials specific meaning to my vocabulary to further the communication gap between myself and non-trials riders.

[RomanC]

I noticed that when I do it at speed it helps to actually pull hard on the bars and then proceed with the pedal motion as usual.

[Rob.K]

well after a serious ride and a lot of thinking I've come to a conclusion about the High BB's...


It isn't that you are going too fast into it and looping out, its that we are hitting the wrong spot (too high)- we are used to riding a 0 or less rise bb...with my woodman, the faster I went into stuff the higher I would go (it had a DROPPED bb), this was more or les the same with my pure and my xtp. Hitting the wrong spot is obvious to our brains, but our body can't seem to get used to it. I've been hitting the same spot for 2+ years with no rise bb's and I'm just used to that...here is where I'm going off on a limb:


My thesis is that the high bb favors a harder gear and a completely different style of tap.


Watch that recent cologne video with vincent and kenny tapping at the end. Vincent is basically keeping his front wheel at a certain height untill it reaches the wall...as he is approaching the wall his front end gets to a certain height and he basically just wheelies (keeping the front end EXACTLY at the same point) into the wall for 2-3 feet untill he completely slams into it and shoots up. Taps used to be just going towards the wall and as you are pulling up your front wheel taps it; vincent isn't doing this; he isn't tapping anymore...he's gone beyond that he is now slamming. This is how he can do that slam to front/rear trick up those 10 palletes- his body position and the timing of how he hits can throw his body up into an endo as opposed to a normal tap which would shoot the bike up from under you. I've seen giacomo do this style as well in france. A lighter gear would favor picking your front wheel up really easily, and it will be a bit twitchier- a harder gear will give you more power and it will look slower and methodical...since you only have to bring your front wheel up a certain amount and then just slam the fuck out of that wheel a harder gear is the ticket to success (along with shitloads of practice).

Now to something that concerns us...when we are going slowly at the wall and it taps fine we are at the perfect spot to tap. But we have no power or speed to get up really big things. When we tap going fast we just loop out, no good even though we have the power and speed... A harder gear has all the power and speed, but it won't pick up your front end as fast as a lighter gear will and you will be able to transfer that power and speed better into the slam (yes, I am renaming this move...take note :) ) ...over all I think getting used to this new style of bike will be a welcomed change, but you have to be very methodical in your riding and much more carefull about where you can tap than in the past because if you get too far up on the wall/rock you are fucked.
Excelent post. Now I understand why I can't tap with my control yet i was tapping so well with my woodman cause I would go super fast and fly up the wall. Should have seen what happened when I tried that with my control. :hsugh:
I think my control with 20 + BB applies in the high bb catagory. But it is kind of in-between the 2. So I have to find a balance between the Tap and the "Slam" as Andrew says.

A new age of stock is here and a new word has been introduced. the "Slam"

peace.

[greg9]

Thanks for the great response,

So everbody is under the same conclusion that with any high bb frmae it is all about adjusting your technique to achieve what you would on a normal bb rise frame. After reading the advantages and disavantages from all of you people, riding a high bb frame isnt always the best option. With all the pros and cons high bb's, surely riding a noral bb rise frame is better. Although some things improve, it also takes alot of time to get the perfect technique for gaps and taps, but will you ever find these techniques and be able to ride as well as you did on your normal bb rise frame?

Cheers,

Greg C

[AndyT]

my bike is +20 as well, so I haven't gone all the way with a crazy stem...

[RomanC]

When I had my +50 1100 Bt with a 90x10 stem taps felt like I was used to before. When I got the +50 1065 (actually a 1080) with a 140x35 stem,then things got mighty weird. Good thing is that I can stick taps to rear now after I adjusted the technique.

[AndyT]

Thanks for the great response,

So everbody is under the same conclusion that with any high bb frmae it is all about adjusting your technique to achieve what you would on a normal bb rise frame. After reading the advantages and disavantages from all of you people, riding a high bb frame isnt always the best option. With all the pros and cons high bb's, surely riding a noral bb rise frame is better. Although some things improve, it also takes alot of time to get the perfect technique for gaps and taps, but will you ever find these techniques and be able to ride as well as you did on your normal bb rise frame?

Cheers,

Greg C
I hit some things yesterday that I'd never hit before, 4-5 moves that I've tried for a long time and have never completed...I think it is the way forward, a new step in the evolution of stock bikes and we should embrace it. I'm not sure about the +60 stuff but we'll see.

[RomanC]

Yeah I have to agree that higher BB bikes are here to stay and will lead to further improvements in the size/type of moves.

[aki]

So are you guys aiming slightly lower with taps now or just hitting the same spot harder & with more speed?

[RomanC]

You have to hit a bit lower otherwise the rear wheel will just smack into the wall on the way up.

[AndyT]

lower :)

[tybikes]

A lot of good posts in this thread, and glad to see that people are actually thinking before they post and providing some useful information.

As for the tap vs. slamming or whatever, I think that us US riders are just way behind the curve. Back in like 1998-99, taps were referred to as "Jap Zaps". It was a borrowed move from mototrials, where the Japanese riders would blip the gas to get the front wheel up, and then when it was about to hit an obstacle, the rider would compress the suspension and give some more gas. The front wheel would "zap" off the edge of the obstacle and help pop the bike up. Trials riders borrowed the move and it has since evolved into the taps that we see today, where you slam the wheel into the wall to shoot the bike up. What you call it doesn't really matter so much, and at least trials is getting away from really goofy names...

You're old school if you know what "tocking" is or would "rock walk" to impress people.

Lance, I know what you mean with the Jack Flash. Ive got a 2005 one as my dirt jumping bike, with a 95mm Pike fork. Feels great and really responsive, but when I crank the fork up in travel, the bike just feels like poo.

Enough babbling...

[eXtreme_one]

if a 2+ bb rise and 375 chainstays is a problem then what about the BT ninja +2 rise and 365 chainstays ? :dunno:

[AndyT]

A lot of good posts in this thread, and glad to see that people are actually thinking before they post and providing some useful information.

As for the tap vs. slamming or whatever, I think that us US riders are just way behind the curve. Back in like 1998-99, taps were referred to as "Jap Zaps". It was a borrowed move from mototrials, where the Japanese riders would blip the gas to get the front wheel up, and then when it was about to hit an obstacle, the rider would compress the suspension and give some more gas. The front wheel would "zap" off the edge of the obstacle and help pop the bike up. Trials riders borrowed the move and it has since evolved into the taps that we see today, where you slam the wheel into the wall to shoot the bike up. What you call it doesn't really matter so much, and at least trials is getting away from really goofy names...

You're old school if you know what "tocking" is or would "rock walk" to impress people.

Lance, I know what you mean with the Jack Flash. Ive got a 2005 one as my dirt jumping bike, with a 95mm Pike fork. Feels great and really responsive, but when I crank the fork up in travel, the bike just feels like poo.

Enough babbling...
jap zap was the pussy pc way of saying it, anyone worth a damn called it what it was...a jap slap.

[aki]

If this slamming technique works for the pro's what about the tap where you're going relatively slow & you're squishing your body as the front wheel hits? Is that any different from the regular tap I see most riders do? And if so is it even a technique you can still incorporate with high BB's?

[muddyfox]

You're old school if you know what "tocking" is or would "rock walk" to impress people.

Hell Yeah........I still "rock walk" to this day.

[Ped]

I dont mean to be arguementative here but I watched the cologne final vid, the bit where they are warming up tapping the ten pallets, and vince and kenny are tapping like normal. Lifting the front wheel with the bad foot and powering into the tap. None of this slamming buissness. Although I do know what you mean by this, I dont think you can get higher with it over a tap.

Sorry, but to me they are tapping as always, good foot puts down some speed then lift the front with the bad foot, then into the tap on the good.

Could some one maybe give me a time reference of a good example. Thanks

[LanceT]

I like the slam, but I think slap would work too. The one thing for sure is that concentrating on the edge of the height you are trying to reach doesn't really work unless you have a really long bike or the height is under about 40 inches. It is clear from the Cologne practice as well as watching TRA on his short Vinco that hitting well below the top edge is the key, like a foot below. When Vince taps that huge wall in the parking lot, his wheel is no where near the top, and after it hits his body goes straight up. Also it seems concentrating all your force on springing up very quickly helps. Just pedalling at the wall generates enough forward momentum, let your body focus on springing up. Similar to trying to gap further, the pedal kick lets you go forward, but you have to jump up more than you think. I think the high BB has it's strengths and weaknesses, but you have to be a little quicker with it, especially with the short stays.

[AndyT]

I dont mean to be arguementative here but I watched the cologne final vid, the bit where they are warming up tapping the ten pallets, and vince and kenny are tapping like normal. Lifting the front wheel with the bad foot and powering into the tap. None of this slamming buissness. Although I do know what you mean by this, I dont think you can get higher with it over a tap.

Sorry, but to me they are tapping as always, good foot puts down some speed then lift the front with the bad foot, then into the tap on the good.

Could some one maybe give me a time reference of a good example. Thanks
Dood you are just completely blind and have no grasp of the english language, as noted in the cologne video thread. After seeing vincent tap walls higher than most people can jerk off too in real life on numerous occasions and in different countries there is no argument here. He is slamming.

[Ped]

Not blind andy, I just disagree with you. Im not going to bother any more.

[hello?]

just got my raven 6.0 all built up. Ive got a plante x stem on it and it feels like a need a higher stem for sure but ive got a hi-fi one coming in a couple days so it will be ok. Hooks feel amazing on it and i actually cant hit the bashguard just hte cranks. 2 wheel balance is a tiny bit harder but not really a big noticable difference. On the rear wheel it feels relaly really good. gaps seem to feel kind of flicky but i havent tried any relaly yet. It definetly takes some getting used to but in the end i think its better. On first impressiongs it feels kinda weird and that you wont like it.