comp level

[sicterallowishus]

:wtf: the gap beetween sport class and expert is huge here in fontana,and i dont want to ride the sport sections ever again almost xc but i dont think im ready for the expert, big rocks scary:Owned:

i was just wondering if most comps are the same. the sport sections here you never have to gap,surge, or pedaup anything, always two wheels in dirt not enough rocks.

thanx...

[rush]

We had some issues with this in Australia for quite a while. We only have 3 levels: Novice, Sport and Elite. Our Sport level is roughly expert level in the US im led to believe.

The gap between novice and sport here was crazy. Sport equalled 7ft drops and 2-3ft ups and 5ft gaps, while novice was almost too easy for XC riders! We ended up making Sport easier in terms of scary shit, Elite stayed basically the same, and we introduced a Pro class for the best riders (if we had enough of them).

It was a sore point for me because I was barely making it through any sport sections, and that has a pretty shitty effect on morale.

Comps are so much fun now that we have adjusted the level properly.

[jamesb]

The comps where I live are much more evenly sorted in each level. There is still a huge gap between sport and expert though. Mainly in the height and danger of the obstacles. If sport is too easy for you, push your limits and go for expert. You will learn more!

[MikeTheBike]

I think every event has had that problem at one time or another. I know I constantly worry about making the Sport class too hard and the Expert class too easy. I'm starting to get the feeling that maybe there is supposed to be a big gap (pardon the pun) between them.

In the US, we have Beginner, Sport, Expert and Pro skill levels. The Beginner class is intended to be almost too easy in order to attract first-time competitors and keep them interested. I always tell people that even if they have been playing at trials for awhile, they should do Beginner for at least their first comp. A comp puts pressures such as time limit and stage fright on a rider that they have no idea about beforehand.

As for Sport, I build these sections for people who have done a comp before and have been doing trials for a year or so. I might put in some obstacles on which the rider could use a rear-wheel move but they don't have to. I try to give enough room for a side drop or dab, if needed. My hope is to have sections just challenging enough to keep the rider's interest but not so much as to discourage them.

From there, Expert does typically get quite a bit more difficult and, can be, intimidating. However, I personally prefer to stay away from the out-and-out scary sections even up into Pro. While intimidation should be used as a challenge to the rider, I don't think it should overrule technique and problem solving skills.

My belief is that Expert is always going to be a significant jump up from Sport because it differentiates those riders truly devoted to competing. I don't mean to offend anyone that has been riding Sport level for awhile but you have to admit that most longterm Sport riders are just there to have fun. If someone really wants to make a name for themselves in trials, they will pursue the Expert level and, in turn, the Pro level, with a devotion to practice, fitness and mental strength.

In the end, trials is really a sport of you against the course. You have to decide how capable you want to be.

[trialsbug]

It sounds like you are riding at about the same level that I ride. I jumped up to Expert last fall for the last two comps that MikeTheBike organized. I was not even close to being competitive at that level, but I had fun. If a move is too big or scary just back down. It is not really that discouraging if you go into it with the attitude that you want to have fun since being competitive is not an option. It is more fun to see what you can do in Expert then to continue riding Sport and wondering when to move up. As you continue to ride harder sections you will eventually progress to the point where you are not as intimidated by the bigger moves.


Remember, the key is to ride for fun (at any level).

[bubbazanetti]

As one who has set many sections & events over the years, I can shed some light on this. Tim Williamson of Trialsin USA & NATS, and I have had long discussions on this. Most section builders find that it is alot easier to set expert & pro sections. These level riders are at a point where they push themselves and with that, improve quickly. Here in SoCal, I have seen many riders turn expert too quickly, get scared and burn out. There is a fine line in the sport class between who's ready to move up & who isn't. Most new experts will flounder for an entire first season, before they get their confidence level up and actually tackle the obstacles with any style or grace, which they probably have refined on man-made terrain. Man-made terrain is steadier to ride, it doesn't move or re-configure during the course of a day or comp, and you probably ride the same thing over & over & over. Not usually the case with natural terrain.

Anyway, I'm getting off the subject...the absolute most difficult sections to lay-out, are for the beginner & sport sections. The challenge is getting something that isn't too boring, provides some skill to ride and looks more than a little difficult. This is a hard combination to achieve, and takes much more thought than an expert or pro section. The general consensus for builders over the years, was that beg/sport sections should be similar to what you would encounter on a tough singletrack ride. If you're capable of rear wheel hops, surges and gaps bigger than 2 feet, you'll be bored in the Sport class.

I have seen tons of riders who are very proficient on urban man-made obstacles, have a really tough time translating their skills to natural terrain. There at Fontana, we've seen lots of guys who were GREAT urban riders lose interest in the sport of biketrials, because it wasn't what they expected, or saw in the latest Jeff Lenosky video. True, Jeff is a great rider, BUT remember...he refined his awesome skills on NATURAL terrain, and translated those BACK into his urban skills, not the other way around. I wish we could have events on college campuses or other municipal properties with lots of concrete. Find me one that will allow it, & I'll put on an event.

Anyway...I'm losing concentration. Sorry for the long drawn-out explanation. I know that Zak would welcome the help in building the sections at Fontana. It would also be a good lesson for any riders to have input on section difficulty & in seeing what goes into the process. Please take these observations as I have intended, for them to be helpful, not spiteful or critical of anyone's riding ability.
Jon

[rush]

Its amazing how guarded people have to be on the intrawebs! Good thoughts one and all. I think the most important thing is for riders to help set sections. Then you get input into the difficulty of the sections and the organisers/setters get a better idea of what the riders think.

[MikeTheBike]

I've often dreamed of putting on a fun event in which at least four riders from each skill level show up and each rider sets a section on their own. Then, everyone rides and critiques the sections. I think it would result in a whole new level of creativity.

[TrevorBodogh]

Hey Mike,

Are you going to Motorama?

[rush]

The way we set sections at the last comp in Victoria was:

Novice:-3 makeable sections that were fun and built confidence.
-1 more technical section to build skill.
-1 section with a couple of scarier moves (roll downs etc.)

Sport:-2 makeable, fun sections.
-2 technical sections.
-1 scary section (almost elite level)

Elite:-2 makeable sections for people that had moved up to elite from sport.
-3 standard elite, technical, scary sections.


We did these so that people were encouraged to move up a class, or at least try it out to see how they went. It worked really well, everyone seemed to have a good time.

[MikeTheBike]

Hey Mike,

Are you going to Motorama?
Unfortunately, no. I considered going so I could try to make amends with Charlie but I simply cannot afford either the travel costs nor the time off work. I hope the event goes well and everyone has a great time.

[sicterallowishus]

this sounds perfect.


The way we set sections at the last comp in Victoria was:

Novice:-3 makeable sections that were fun and built confidence.
-1 more technical section to build skill.
-1 section with a couple of scarier moves (roll downs etc.)

Sport:-2 makeable, fun sections.
-2 technical sections.
-1 scary section (almost elite level)

Elite:-2 makeable sections for people that had moved up to elite from sport.
-3 standard elite, technical, scary sections.


We did these so that people were encouraged to move up a class, or at least try it out to see how they went. It worked really well, everyone seemed to have a good time.

[OC Hottie]

Yeah, that does sound great. Committees need to be appointed, postions filled out, the natural leaders of each class should rise to the surface design sections for their own people. http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/images/icons/icon12.gif